This interview was conducted on behalf of Charleston County as part of the project: Stories from Historic African American Communities: A Journey to Equal Education, W. Gresham Meggett High School, James Island, SC. Charleston County was awarded a grant from the Department of Interior and National Park Service (NPS) in 2018 to conduct this oral history project aims to provide insight into the lives of African American students during desegregation. The project is structured by the NPS research framework: Civil Rights in America: A Framework for Identifying Significant Sites (2002, rev. 2008).
This interview was conducted on February 23, 2019 at W. Gresham Meggett School (Septimal P. Clark Academy), James Island, Charleston County, South Carolina. Mary Beth Reed (New South Associates) is the interviewer; Terri Gillett (New South Associates) was the technical assistant.
Thomas Prioleau: But anyhow, back in the days, from the time that my great grandfather was around, the name was called Prioleau [PRAY-low] because it’s colloquial. See? And when we came to school here, I took a class in French. And she told us how to pronounce the name. It’s Prioleau [PRE-law]. “Are you sure?” They said, “Yes. It’s Pri, P-R-I-O- leau.” Which means before water. That’s all I know.
Mary Beth Reed: Wow. That’s a good learning curve. Thank you.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Thank you for coming. This is an honor for me. I think we’re on taping. I just need to say the obvious that my name is Mary Beth Reed. We’re here at W. Gresham Meggett School interviewing Thomas Prioleau. I got it.
TP: Yes.
MBR: The class of 19-
TP: ’57.
MBR: It is ’57. Okay.
TP: Yes.
MBR: What I’d like to do in the interview is talk a little bit first about your background, about your family, who you are. Where were you born? And when? I guess that’s the first.
TP: First question. Is that recording?
MBR: Yes.
TP: Does it stop? Even when we’re doing this?
MBR: When we do what we’re doing now, no. But that’s okay. That’s why we edit.
TP: I was born here on James Island. I am a great grandson of this gentleman.
MBR: James.
TP: James Prioleau. Who was a former slave from Saint Stephen, South Carolina, an area called Pineville, South Carolina. That’s about 56 miles from here. And my mother’s name is Florence Prioleau Gilliard. Gilliard is a married name. My father’s name was Rutledge Smith. We lost him at an early age when I was between four and five. Yes.
MBR: Was he from South Carolina?
TP: Yes. He is from an area called Scott Hill. It’s sort of like due east of here. He was a carpenter, a mechanic carpenter and cabinet maker. My mother became a single parent. I am the youngest of her children.
MBR: How many?
TP: I had several older brother and sisters. Presently, I am the youngest of my mother’s children and the youngest of my father’s children. I now have a sister who is 92 years old. She’s still alive. She lives on Sol Legare. She and I are very close.
MBR: So she’s 92.
TP: Yes.
MBR: So were you born on James Island?
TP: Yes.
MBR: You were?
TP: I was born 1938, February 1st. I would like to show you a treat. Of where I was born.
MBR: This is wonderful.
TP: Yes.
MBR: This is wonderful. Tape.
TP: Yes. I was going to use rubber band, but then I wasn’t sure which would work out better. So.
MBR: There you go.
TP: I decided to use the tape.
MBR: Now, is this a photograph of your home where you grew up?
TP: Of my great grandfather’s house. So that house there, okay? I was born – by midwife I was born in that house and later taken to the hospital to be checked out. That house is called the Big House, because of the fact that it was constructed by my great grandfather. It was the largest house on James Island during that era, and it was the strongest house. As the story goes, they used to meet there on the weekend, which was primarily Saturday. The guys used to get up under the tree, tell their stories, the guys from the surrounding areas, and they would grind their corn into flour and grits. My great grandfather, James Prioleau, traveled from Pineville with the grist mill, which is cast iron, on his shoulder. It took him several days until he reached the edge of the water of Charleston. And then he caught a ride on a paddle boat from the shores of Charleston over to the shores of James Island. And eventually, they would wind up on Taylor Island, which is across the water from Sol Legare. Other ex-slaves lived over there, and that’s where they had the headquarters. So then when it was time to go to work, they worked on the Grimball Plantation, they worked on the Townsend plantation, and so forth and so on.
MBR: Oh, my goodness.
TP: So therefore, at the present time, the Prioleau family still own five acres of property over there on Taylor Island. One of the other things that took place at the Big House was that they met there to anyone that congregated religiously. And that was the meeting house. And when the serious hurricane came around, and the weather was treacherous, they congregated at that house because of the fact that it was strong and it was well built. Now, that house was about almost two stories.
MBR: Great. You can see it.
TP: And it was elevated. Now, the house next door to it, okay? Tell you the big name that they called that area. They called it Bic House B-I-C. Bic House.
MBR: Bic House.
TP: That was colloquial for Big House. And I wrote an ode about one of my first cousins who lived in the first house here. Okay? Because he died a couple years ago, and he was my mentor. He was my first cousin. And he taught us a lot of things in that little community. Because as you can see, there are four houses. That’s his house, George Prioleau. The next house is Johnny Prioleau, my uncle. The oldest brother of my mother. And that house was the youngest brother’s house. So also Prioleau. So there were four houses in that sector. And I wrote that ode for him because I was unable to attend his funeral, and I wanted to leave that to his family. It hangs about four or five feet tall from here up. I have it hanging in my den. I just finished it last year. Okay. And go ahead.
MBR: Wow. No. So how did your mom end up here on James Island?
TP: My mom was the daughter of Thomas Prioleau. See, these are the descendants of James Prioleau.
MBR: Oh, I love the chain. That’s really cool.
TP: Okay?
MBR: So this was her father? Thomas?
TP: Thomas was her father. Now, Ned Roper, that’s his grandmother. Great grandmother.
MBR: Okay.
TP: Lucy Roper’s Ned Roper’s great grandmother. A lot of these –people that you will come in contact with here will be related to him. Him and her. He met his wife in Saint Stephen. And after he had settled and built a home, he finally went back there and he got her. Okay? And they settled down and they co-habitat with them, became married and they produced their children.
MBR: All right.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Well, so let’s go back to your childhood.
TP: Yes.
MBR: So your mom was a single mom.
TP: My mom became a single mom after being married to a Gilliard. When I was born, that puts about eight to ten years after she had been separated, and finally when I was a little boy she filed – the divorce was finally granted. Yes.
MBR: So when growing up, there was your mom and how many siblings in the house?
TP: Okay. There was my mom when I was a little boy.
MBR: And your mom’s first name?
TP: Florence.
MBR: Florence. Okay.
TP: Florence Prioleau Gilliard.
MBR: Gilliard. Okay.
TP: Her nickname was Ida.
MBR: Ida?
TP: Yes.
MBR: Okay.
TP: And growing up, okay, there were my two older brothers, and another brother who was my elder brother who was ten years older than I am. Okay? My sister, who was the third child, she remained in Philadelphia with her father, because of the fact that she was born with polio, so therefore they thought that medically, it was better for her to live there. And she lived there all of her life, basically. And so she passed away about – she was about 80. I think she was about 84 when she passed away. Yes.
MBR: Wow. I can see. I can understand.
TP: And the two older brothers, they worked locally.
MBR: Doing?
TP: They wasn’t a high school on James Island. They finished school at the school level of either sixth to eighth grade. And then they went to work.
MBR: What school did they attend?
TP: They attended Society Corner School. Yes. Because that was the only elementary and – I would say middle school, but it was all combined together on that area of James Island.
MBR: I see. So they went to Society Corner and after getting out of elementary school went to work.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Do you know what they did for a living?
TP: My second oldest brother, he worked in the field of carpentry as a, what would you say? A tradesman? An apprentice. And the older brother, he was in the craft area when he worked for a gentleman on Folly Beach and I think it was as an apprentice. He learned metallurgy. Yes. Welding sort of and the stuff of that nature. Then the two were drafted into the service. Went to the service and they served there for the tour, I think it was three or four years. They went to I think it’s Korea or the one before that. And they did their tour. I think they went to Germany, and they went elsewhere, and then finally they came back to the States. And afterwards, my oldest brother, he wanted to continue his education. So therefore he went to night school and day school when the government paid for them going to school. And he attended Burke School, High School until he got his diploma. And afterwards, he went to Pittsburgh and somewhere else. I don’t remember exactly. Where he learned watch repairs and jewelry making. And he continued that until he got married, and then he went to Columbia South Carolina wherein he learned to work at a shop and then how to repair jewelry and all that stuff, until he said later on that was not enough money because it wasn’t frequent enough. So therefore, age, I would say, he’d be 45 or 50 when he studied for the postal service exam and he became a postman working in the post office. Very difficult for him, because he was left handed, so he had to learn that skill. Okay.
The second oldest brother, he went back to Philadelphia because his father was a carpenter, so he worked constructions intermittently between his father and the Navy Yard until he passed. And he finally retired, and then he remained there because his children were there.
Now, the oldest brother, he retired too afterwards. And he stayed in Columbia and he stayed there until he became physically incapable and he moved to the assistant living home on Secessionville Road until he passed away.
MBR: Okay.
TP: And when he passed away, he was 88 I would say. Somewhere around there.
MBR: You have good genes.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Well, it sounds like that you did mention – did your mother go to school? Did your mother and your father? I guess what I’m saying, how important was education in your family?
TP: Oh, it was important.
MBR: Okay.
TP: Between that man and this man here, very important.
MBR: James and Thomas. Okay.
TP: Yes. My mother went to grade school until she I think may have completed the fifth or sixth grade. And her teacher, the principal of the school – because in those days, the classes were small, so you only had a few teachers where one teacher would teach several subject matters. So anyhow, her teacher and principal called Mr. Hays became attached to her because of the type of person she was. Kind hearted, patient, and smart. Once he wanted to send her to school to become trained and become a teacher. However, she would have loved to do it, but Grandpa said, “I need her.” Because at that point, his wife, Mary, had become somewhat ill and was sort of sickly, because she had had several children. And he needed her home to help to raise the younger children, and also to help him to run the store. He had a little country store that was located in the field next to that house.
MBR: Now, this is located where?
TP: Due west of here.
MBR: Okay.
TP: And due south.
MBR: And on James Island?
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: Okay.
TP: Yes.
MBR: And then neighborhood, what would you call it? It’s Bic Town?
TP: Bic House.
MBR: Bic House.
TP: Or Big House.
MBR: Big House.
TP: If you go-
MBR: So that’s a name that people would say, “I’m going to Bic House,” and – excuse me. People would know, “Bic House.”
TP: Yes.
MBR: Okay.
TP: They would know. Because if you take this road, make a left, you travel around through Barn Hill, that’s the section over there on the other side of the elementary school. And you will travel to a road which is now called Reverend Paris Williams Lane or Drive. You make that right and you go down until you hit the curve. When you hit the curve, James Prioleau Road will be by the area. The road that runs from that corner to Folly Road. Okay? And so my grandfather, Thomas Prioleau, was a multifaceted entrepreneur.
MBR: Store.
TP: He had the store. He had the farm. He had horse and buggy services to carry people’s vegetables and stuff to the landing down in Fort Johnson.
MBR: And truck gardening kind of vegetables?
TP: They didn’t have trucks back then.
MBR: No, I’m not thinking truck.
TP: Oh, like truck farms.
MBR: Yes. Vegetables. Yeah.
TP: Yes. Yes. And he had surreys which is fancy cart-driven vehicles that carried the aristocrats from their location to the landing at Charleston. He had wagons that did the same thing.
And so therefore, he was highly operative local personnels, relatives and local people. They worked for him. And so therefore, that’s why Grandpa needed Grandma – I mean my mother to supervise and to work and to keep those children in line.
MBR: She was part of the family business.
TP: Yes. Yes. So that’s why she wasn’t able to go beyond that.
MBR: When you were growing up, where did you attend elementary school?
TP: Same place.
MBR: Same place?
TP: Yes. The major part of it, I attended Society Corner Elementary School from pre-K, kindergarten through the fifth grade. And when we reached the education level of the sixth grade, we had to walk to a lodge hall school. One room school, the sixth grade.
MBR: Lodge hall?
TP: Yes. Called Cherabene Lodge Hall. We had to go there, a one-room school to be taught in the sixth grade.
MBR: How far was that from your house? Tell me about that.
TP: Five miles. And we walked.
MBR: Did you go everyday?
TP: You had better. Five miles.
MBR: Who walked with you?
TP: My cousin and other neighboring folks. It was a community that consisted majorly of family people. And we walked through the fields. We walked down the dirt roads. We walked through the twists and turns until we arrived at school.
MBR: So that was sixth grade.
TP: That was sixth grade.
MBR: And it was in a lodge building? It wasn’t in a school building, per say?
TP: They utilized it, the community rented it from the lodge. Okay? For us to go to school there because we didn’t have any room at Society Corner School. Okay? And we were the top grade at that point, because the others had graduated and moved on. Okay? Now, it was fun going to school. A lot of times. We always enjoyed going to school. Sometimes we wanted to stay home and be active, though our sickness was a little rehearsed, and it was because of the fact that we wanted to stay home and play hooky, but then too, your schoolwork was sent home for you to do. And I remember one occasion is that I was home, everybody else was at school. My mom was over in the field working to help to support the family, and the sun was so beautiful. And I was sitting in the – you see where that window is? I was sitting there in the corner at that window, the sun was so nice and strong. So I said, “Well, Mom is not around. I’m going to sneak outside and I’m going to play in the dirt for a little while. Do something.” And my mother came home and she caught me. And I got a whipping for that. But anyhow, it was fun. I enjoyed the life there.
MBR: Then at the lodge school, was that sixth, seventh and eighth grades then?
TP: No. At the lodge school it was only sixth grade.
MBR: It was only sixth grade?
TP: Yes.
MBR: Okay.
TP: And then after we reached the seventh grade, okay? The previous students, they left and they went onto – I don’t know. Grade school. I’m not sure. Not yet. But here’s what happened. The population of the school has increased to the extent when it was warranted for them to build another school. And this was where this building here and the officer then became W. Gresham Meggett Elementary School. Okay? We came in as seventh graders. And the class before us came in as eighth graders.
MBR: I see.
TP: And after they graduated, they went to Burke High School in Charleston where they commuted by bus.
MBR: So they went by bus?
TP: They went by bus. Okay? And we remained here and we were very active. I think we changed a couple of classes in the seventh grade. Okay? It was fun.
MBR: I wonder about that.
TP: We were the big honchos. Okay? In the seventh grade. But the others who were in the eighth grade, they remained here until they graduated.
MBR: I see. So that’s how they transitioned it to make it work.
TP: Yes.
MBR: When you heard – I don’t know if you did hear. How did the community learn that there was going to be a new school here? That this school was coming? What did the community think about it?
TP: They were pro. They were very positive about it. Because it would be amazing if you was to hear the story behind the transition and what took place. As I told you before how my great grandfather migrated here. Okay? And they even worked on the Grimball Plantation, Scobby Plantation or they worked on the Nungezer Plantation. Those are the areas of source of income. Okay? To support the families. My great grandfather, James Prioleau, worked for the Grimball Plantation, Benjamin Grimball Senior. He owned – I don’t think this is a portion of this property. Maybe at one time. But on the other side where the cemetery is and the elementary school, all of that is his. And back of here. Over on the left-hand side going around the curve, all of that belonged to him all the way to the water. My great grandfather at one time gradually bought 101 to 111 acres of property in all that area that I mentioned back over there. Okay? And across Folly Road, and in an area called Hazard, and an area called Pasture, and an area called Toby. Those areas – it keeps getting away from me – consist of the properties that he owned. And he took it and he dispersed it amongst. This is his oldest daughter here.
MBR: Maria.
TP: Maria. Okay? He dispersed it to each one of them individually. Sander was the oldest son, but he returned to St. Stephen because his wife – I think suddenly became ill and she didn’t like it down here. Well, okay.
MBR: But the place names are so interesting. Toby, Hazard.
TP: Toby, Hazard.
MBR: And there’s one other one you mentioned.
TP: Cross Pasture.
MBR: Cross the Pasture.
TP: Pasture and Asburn [phonetic 00:00:29]. Yeah.
MBR: So those were the place names that you knew. I think it’s so interesting.
TP: Yes. Yes. Because you heard of it, you know.
MBR: Well, now I’m going to talk about Gresham Meggett.
TP: Yes.
MBR: How different was it, school experience-wise, for you coming in here to what would be a new modern looking school?
TP: Yes.
MBR: Do you remember your first impressions? I don’t know.
TP: It was marvelous. Because we used to have to cut wood at times. The older guys would have to cut wood at times to bring into the school and replenish the wood that had already burnt to keep us warm in these one room buildings. We always had these potbelly stoves. The one that’s shaped like this. And to come here, it was the greatest treat in the world. The distance of walking was shorter.
MBR: Was it?
TP: Yes.
MBR: Oh, of course. Now that I’m thinking. Yes.
TP: From Society from our house, Bic House, some kids traveled further than that to Society Corner School.
MBR: You’re right.
TP: A big walk filled with James Prioleau Road. Okay? Out to Grimball Road. And then we came – well, we would cut through different peoples’ property, which were all family, to arrive here. And I remember it was fun. We used to play, laugh, joke. Yes.
MBR: And you were in the first building.
TP: We were in the first building.
MBR: Okay.
TP: It was Baxter. I think the first name was Nancy Madison. It was Nancy Madison Baxter who was the teacher and principal from the old elementary school. And she came here. And the superintendent had wanted her to let them name the school after her, and she said no because of the fact that you’ve achieved more than I have, so therefore, you should have it be named after you. And he still was opposed or what have you. So finally, they settled on that. So we went to the school, brand new school, brand new desks and all that stuff. Lighting. You know? It was a treat. We were the big dogs. Okay? Second in line, because as I said, the eighth graders were first. Yeah.
MBR: But still. It was still so new.
TP: Oh, yes. New smell, new.
MBR: How many of you were in a class? Remember? Or did you have like a homeroom? How did it-
TP: We had-
MBR: Well, you were still in elementary school then.
TP: We were still in elementary school.
MBR: Any switching of classes? I mean, you mentioned that-
TP: I think we switched only a couple of classes in the seventh grade. And we did the same in the eighth grade. And it was a treat, because we were like – all the relatives that went to Burke School. They were switching classes. They said, “Wow. Wow. A different teacher.” But we were always positive. We wanted to succeed. We did not want to remain on that farm all the days of our life, because we saw what our parents went through and other family members. And we were sick and tired of having to work so hard. You had to work in the fields. You had to help harvest the vegetables, carry it. Oh, gosh. Hard work. And then you would have to wash the vegetables so that it could be presentable to take to the market. It was hard work. Cold weather, hot weather. We had very little time to spare to play, unlike some kids. Some children were more blessed than we were. Their parents worked other jobs locally, other tasks, other jobs away from home.
MBR: When you came here, was it harder scholastically? I mean, what were the teachers like? Did they challenge you to grow? Like what value system did they work with?
TP: Yes. Very inspirational. Most of them. We only had a few teachers who were from the island. Either this island or Johns Island. The others were from Charleston, the city. And elementary school, when we first started we had Mrs. Chisolm, which was a local, from a local family here. And we had Mrs. Blunt. She was from the city. And you had Mrs. Bryant. She was from the city. But there were positive and strict teachers. Very influential. They’d make you learn. If you didn’t learn, then they’ll take whatever action necessary to help you to learn. But we had the drive and the eagerness to want to learn, want to succeed. And our parents were behind us. Key factor. Parents. Parental concern, interest, influence. Okay?
There were a lot of clichés that we were going by, because of the fact that our four parents had those clichés. One of them I’ll never forget. My mother used to always say, and her brothers and the other relatives would say, “If you want sweet meat, you have to bear the pain in the head.” Okay? That’s the Gullah cliché. First of all, the cliché. And they would also tell you so that you could remain busy and occupied constructively, “an idle mind is the devil’s workshop.” And they have a name, one after the other, as we communicate and associate with the members of the community. So many times you would hear them over and over. And we would say, “Tired of hearing it. That’s something you say the same thing over and over. I’m tired of it.” But I’m going to say at 81, prior to reaching 81, I’ve lived to see those clichés become a reality.
MBR: That’s a beautiful way to put it. You talk really inspiringly about parents’ involvement at Meggett.
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: I mean, when we say that, is that just making sure your child’s ready and at school? Or were there organizations that they met? Did they meet with teachers?
TP: Yes. The parents knew what they came up against when they were being nurturing and assisting in the family. Okay? So they wanted better things for the children. Schools there. So you go to school so that you could learn. Okay? And whenever there was a function, for example, they used to hold PTA meetings amongst the school and the teachers and the family. These were sometimes four times per year. Yeah. And they would call it a tea, on a Sunday afternoon. And especially the ladies. Not the men. And they would sit and discuss different things about education. Yeah. That’s the same thing as back to school night. Okay? When you would go and you would sit in a group, and it’s an organized group. You had a secretary, you had a treasurer, you had a parliamentarian, they had a treasurer. Those were the members of the organization. Okay? Would choose who would fulfill other positions, and they’d vote upon it. They were organized. And they used to get a kick out of it. They used to be dressed up and they would go to the tea. Okay? No kids were permitted to be around. And they would sit and talk. And then it wasn’t that many teachers who taught your children, so therefore you could sit and speak to them one-on-one about your child. And we would be happy to know that my mother or parent met my teacher, and what did they say about me? It was very intriguing.
MBR: No, back to school night?
TP: It wasn’t back to school night. It was similar to back to school night, but just a little more different, because you had a smaller nucleus.
MBR: I got you.
TP: Okay? And I just used that as a comparative example. And for us to leave and go to Charleston, the children can either go to the city, or the parents leave and go to the city. And they meet one of our teachers in the street, in the store. That was an awesome treat for your parents to come home and say, “I saw your teacher.” “You did? Which one?” And so they would tell you. “What did they say about me?” It’s a heck of an educational experience. It taught us so many things. We used to look forward to come to school daily. Look forward to come, go to classes, especially when we were changing classes. We couldn’t wait to get to our French class, which was based upon what was being discussed and what people were learning. We couldn’t wait until we could go to our math class and see what were we going to do today? And we were eager, most of us were eager and ready to participate, because we wanted to be top of the class. Okay? Or to be with the upper class.
Now when we reached high school, well, my cousin, William, he and I were the go getters amongst our group, our community. We had others who were smarter than me, mostly, but William was very competitive because of the fact that he had older brothers and sisters who were in high school, so therefore they had more influence upon him because they communicated on different levels. Now, for example, myself, I was the only child in the house with my mom. Okay? Occasionally, my cousin who was six years older than I am – no, five years. I’m sorry. Because he’s 86 and I’m 80. Okay? He used to be my role model then because we were at a closer comparative age group. Okay? Wherein my elder brother, he was five years older than him. But as I said, in my – excuse me. William, his IQ and degree of intelligence was higher than mine. He graduated I think as – well let me put it to you this way. He was the only one out of our group who went to college and receive a high enough score that he had a full scholarship. Okay?
In high school, there were ten of us who were amongst the top ten of the class in 1957. I was number nine or number ten. William was number two or number three. And from the class of 1957, five of us went to a four-year college. Two went to – I think they also went to a four-year college, but elsewhere, and other than the state of South Carolina. And two to three went to an area trade college, which is a two-year vocational college. And a couple of them went to New York. One went to work for the phone company, and she was about the brightest. She’s a high scholar, but she didn’t want to go to college. The other one, another one of the top ten, she went to clerical school in New York. And a third one went also back to New York Telephone Company and retired from that.
MBR: That’s pretty good odds for a small class of what? 26?
TP: 26 or 27.
MBR: Yeah.
TP: But there were numerous ones of us, because I count as many as – when we first entered, there was about 34. Okay? Several of them have passed away. But believe it or not, it’s still about 22 to 20 of us that are still alive.
MBR: That’s fantastic.
TP: Yes.
MBR: You were used to the school, but you went to elementary school here a little bit.
TP: Yes.
MBR: But, as you say, high school has a whole different feel to it. So you got to go to that second – when they built the new addition on, you also had that new school experience that you started, too.
TP: Yes.
MBR: You switched classes.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Were there teachers that had great meaning to you? Were there mentors that when you look back?
TP: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. If I recall correctly, we watched that school being built from the front vestibule, the principal office in the front. We watched the entire development of that school. Cafeteria, all of it. All the way along and the other leg. We used to sit in English class back in the elementary section and watch those workers work as we were learning. We watched them work. H.A. Decosta, who was the contractor, built I think the entire school. I think he built his first part. My brother wound up working for him. And the elder brother, who’s ten years older than me, he’s worked for him and he also worked for Henry “Bubba” Smith [phonetic 00:17:50] who was also a contractor in Charleston. And those two contractors pulled together one main contractor and the other one was a sub. And to show you how much of a small world it was, I learned about that after I went to college. About them, because of the fact that I was in transient and it was a little local enough to know more he worked for because I would only come home occasionally.
MBR: Well, you mentioned earlier that your class planted the trees out front.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Which are incredible today.
TP: Yes. Right.
MBR: Was that something – did all classes plant trees?
TP: No.
MBR: Or was this a once-
TP: No.
MBR: An event. Let me put it that way.
TP: It’s because of the fact that we were the ninth graders, and we took agriculture. Agriculture was a part of our curriculum. The second phase was horticulture. And when we were first assigned to the class, as much farming as we do, why do I have to learn about agriculture? You know? Needless to say, the teacher was our cousin. Yes. Our agriculture teacher name was Mr. William Richardson. He was the son of one of my mother’s first cousins. Okay? My grandfather, Thomas Prioleau, married to his grandmother. Okay? Because my grandmother’s name was Mary Smalls. His grandmother’s name was Betsy Smalls. And there were several other sisters.
MBR: Oh, boy. The connections. I think we need to write on a big table and do the family trees.
TP: Oh, yes. It’s-
MBR: Complicated.
TP: Yes. It’s complicated.
MBR: But interesting.
TP: Yes. Yes. And it tells a story. This book consists of five generations up to six and going on seven generations.
MBR: Oh, my goodness. Oh, we’d love to be able to scan it if we could.
TP: What? The whole book?
MBR: Well, yeah. We’d go fast. But look. Look at this.
TP: See? See how it looks?
MBR: Amazing. So I just met the Smalls out front. There were Carol and Clyde Smalls.
TP: Okay. But this is a different family.
MBR: Okay. All right.
TP: I thought I saw Clyde. He was coming towards me and he got distracted. I haven’t seen – okay. Clyde is related to – I know his grandmother. We used to call her Ms. Toad. It was Toad . I don’t know. I think it was Toad Brolin. Yeah. That may have been her nickname.
MBR: But, no. This is an impressive piece of work.
TP: Yeah. They did a job on this thing. See, for example, I’ll show you. And they show the history. They don’t have a picture of my – see?
MBR: Right.
TP: Maria Blanche Prioleau. Mc Neil is the last name. Look at the picture. That’s her. That is her picture.
MBR: That is wonderful.
TP: David will tell you a story. He gets carried away about her, because see right here?
MBR: Yeah.
TP: James and Betty Judge. Maria is the first child. And these are – Maria married Dan McNeil. And these are all the children. And then it transcended, break down, you know, who they were married to and how many offspring they had and so forth and so on.
MBR: This is great.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: No. If I could, like maybe after the interview, take a look at it, that would be great.
TP: Sure. And see Sancho? Sancho was the oldest son.
MBR: Now we have Sancho?
TP: Sancho.
MBR: Sander [phonetic 00:01:12].
TP: The same as Sander. But Sancho was the nickname.
MBR: Sancho.
TP: Sancho.
MBR: Sancho.
TP: S-A-N–C-H-O.
MBR: I see it.
TP: See? And it goes on. What’s her name? Ellen Prioleau.
MBR: Ellen? No. It’s great.
TP: And well, from time to time, I go back through it to find out who was who.
MBR: Yeah.
TP: Yes. Ellen Prioleau. She was born. I mean, she married a Moore. Okay?
MBR: There’s a Mr. Wilder here.
TP: Yeah. And then near the back, there’s that handsome fellow. That’s my grandfather.
MBR: That’s your grandfather?
TP: Yes.
MBR: So this is James?
TP: No. That’s Thomas.
MBR: Thomas. Excuse me.
TP: That’s Thomas.
MBR: That’s right. Thomas.
TP: Okay. James was great grandfather.
MBR: Great grandfather was James.
TP: Yeah. Now, my uncle who lived in this house, his name was Joseph. Okay? He and my grandfather, he looked like his dad. See?
MBR: He did.
TP: Yeah. Joseph, look how he has a small face just like the-
MBR: He does. He has a small face.
TP: Yes. Yes. Yes. Now see, these two houses here are built alike. Same style. And that’s my Uncle Jacob, that’s his house. Okay? He owns that car. He’s the only one that had a car for a long time. Johnny never had a car. He was the oldest, but he never had a car. But he made equitable money. They farmed, they worked at the Navy yard. The two of them. And then he went to the Navy yard later. And then I have an aunt – we had an aunt who was my mother’s youngest sister. She died about three years ago at 9-9. At 99.
Working with DHL, FedEx, EMS and TNT most of them ship cheap viagra order our products in a discrete brown package that does not mention the contents of fruits work against most of the factors responsible for sexual problem. The main reason that we lose our sexual drive as we grow older is that we merely do not produce as super viagra much testosterone as we used to. Too much nightfall can invite the problem of lethargy, low libido, weight gain, erectile dysfunction, depression, abdominal obesity etc. viagra prescription buy amerikabulteni.com However, there are some other factors that may cause cheap levitra prescription this condition.MBR: Really. You have a lot of-
TP: And they went to school at Society Corner. Okay? And there were three young ladies who went to school together and they were friends in school, and they were friends out of school, all of their life basically. My aunt, which was my mom’s baby sister, she was the oldest. There is a lady who’s still living now, and she is a Moore. She is, I think, going on 103.
MBR: Oh, my goodness.
TP: She lives on Scott Hill, which is an extension of Grimball Road on the other side of Folly Road. When my aunt was sick in the nursing home, she was still driving. And she said that, “I drive fast, too.” I said, “You do?” I said, “You’re not supposed to.” She said, “Hey, I can handle it.” She gave up her license I think about three – four years ago.
MBR: It’s hard.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: It’s hard giving that up.
TP: And she told her daughter that she would quit driving if she was to come home and live with her or something. I can’t remember.
MBR: They worked it out. Yeah.
TP: Yeah. But she still drove well and she had a nice car. And they did a nice write up on her at age, I think, 100 or 101. The News Inquirer or Post Inquirer.
MBR: Well, you get to be 100 and you should have your own news.
TP: Yes. And she was still gardening. She planted her okras, tomatoes and whatever. And then she would say “it’s keeping me alive. It’s therapy food. Yes.
MBR: Well, I’m going to bring it back. No. This is good. I want to look at it. Your family history is just fantastic.
TP: Yes.
MBR: I wanted to ask you a couple questions. You came in here as elementary school. You go to high school here. I didn’t find out, did you play sports or anything? Were there proms here?
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: And all that?
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: You had the whole trimmings, so to speak?
TP: Oh, yes. The whole magilla of high school took place here. As I said, we were the example setters. We were pace runners.
MBR: Okay. Neat.
TP: And on that note, we were so dedicated and so enthusiastic and so motivated to achieve until we were told by numerous persons from the grades behind us that, “You guys set the bar high.” I said, “Really?” He said, “Man, you all were something else. You all set the bar very high.” And we did. We weren’t playing. We wanted to make it.
MBR: That’s great. Well, when-
TP: Go ahead.
MBR: No. I’m trying to get a feel for the larger context. So you have obviously come into a new school the opportunity that many had offered. It was great. At the same time, you have the country going through trying to figure out racism, trying to figure out race.
TP: Yes. Yes.
MBR: And you had kids in Charleston, some of them becoming what they called the first children integrating.
TP: Yes.
MBR: What was your perception at that time as kids? Did you learn or know about that greater world that was going on and what was going on? Or was it more heads down and do your work? You know what I mean? When you’re in high school, you listen to the radio a little bit more. What do you think?
TP: We didn’t focus upon things of that nature, because we were separated. And our concern was to excel. Okay? We didn’t think about the fact that we were going to one day possibly come together. You know? We wanted to excel. Okay? And move on. We were given the older textbooks. Some textbooks were torn, ragged, pages missing, dirty. But we were given the leftovers. There were times when we didn’t have the appropriate writing materials. Okay?
The chalk and the chalkboard was old, dilapidated. You went by, it would screech as the teachers write on the board. Okay? We were considered a second class in that we didn’t need. The only time that we got new books was when the old books were so dilapidated they were thrown away. For example, “Winky,” the First Reader and primer. Those books were basically new. “Jack and Jill.” Those books were soft cover. We would get them, like I say, amazingly enough. When we got to the first reader, second reader that happened, those were the hardcovers. And then those books were the ones that we would be getting as used books, because of the fact that the new ones . Okay? Even at that, we had to preserve it. We had to cover them even with brown papers, newspaper, whatever.
MBR: You covered your book?
TP: Covered the book. Preserve it. See, we were taught very interesting and very important stuff. Preservation. It’s just like the clothing that we wore. We could not wear coming from home. Our school clothes to play in. You could not wear your church clothes to go to school. You only had a few pieces. One pair of shoes. And then later on, you got two pairs. You had a church shoe and you’ve got a school shoe. And then we got whatever we could find or hand-me-downs to put on our feet to work in the fields.
But we observed and didn’t pay that much attention to it, because of the structure of the home life. The domestic structure. We were guided that in order for you to succeed, you must go to school and learn. That was support. If you got a whipping in school or you were detained in school because someone in the class misbehaved, once in a while we got out of line. But not often, because of the fact that you didn’t want to be whipped twice, see. And we were just determined, as those folks used to say. And the African Proverb that I never heard about until I was about in my 40’s. “It takes a whole village to raise a child.” We experienced that continuously through life. If you did not say, “Good morning,” “Good evening,” to cousin Josephine on the corner or Ms. Mary down the road, they would speak to you. “What’s the matter? Did you sleep with me last night?” Or even they all go next door. “Did you sleep with me last night?” I said, “No, sir.” “Well, you must did. You didn’t tell me, ‘Good morning,’ or, ‘Good evening.’” “Oh, I’m sorry.” See, we were disciplined. Disciplined. And it was an issue of enforcement. And to keep us out of getting into trouble, whether it involved you or not, my mother used to say to all of her children – boys, because the sister was elsewhere, “Son, when or if the fight breaks out, you run or you leave.” And that kept us out of trouble. Yes.
MBR: I understand. I only have a few more questions. Are you still good?
TP: Sure.
MBR: Are you sure?
TP: Hey, you sure you have enough time to listen to me?
MBR: Well, I know, but you’re hitting on all the stuff that you want to talk about and I’m well pleased.
TP: Oh, good. Good. I love this. I’ve felt very much at ease coming where I wanted to go. Go ahead.
MBR: So you graduated in ’57.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Then went onto college.
TP: Yes.
MBR: Did you look back at Meggett as it went through the throes of, you know, becoming 1969 to becoming a vocational school? Because for the time that it operated, there were a lot of accomplishments here. You know? And as you say, your class did probably set the bar really high in terms of what you’re saying.
TP: I could definitely – growth of achievement. Yes. Yeah.
MBR: Did you participate with other African American schools for high school?
TP: As a high school?
MBR: As a high school.
TP: Yes.
MBR: When I say football games, did you go places? What was the network like? Did you participate with white schools?
TP: No.
MBR: No. No, no. Okay. That’s out. Okay. That’s out. I thought just maybe. I thought I’d better ask.
TP: Now, you had asked the question before, because this question that you’re asking now interconnects with a question you asked me earlier. And I told you the answer was the no. William Prioleau and I did not participate in any kind of sports because we didn’t have the time. We had to go home and work in the fields. Although his family had more persons to work in the field than I had. We just didn’t have the time. Okay? And the persons who were athletically active were those who had fewer chores. See? Their parents went to work elsewhere. Okay? Whereby they could provide for the family better. They didn’t concentrate on farming as the main source of income. Okay? But we had, in this high school, setting the pace, we started ever since we were in the elementary school, we had a chorus. And therefore William and I sang in that chorus amongst other kids. Okay? We had our hands into whatever positive activities were going on. We were in it. Okay? You weren’t going to leave us behind, because that’s the way that we were nurtured. Okay?
Now, when we arrived into high school, we had the chorus, we had the dramatic club, we had the New Farmers of America Group, we had – what else did we have? We had the oratorical contest – group.
MBR: Like a debate club kind of thing?
TP: No. Oratorical. Speak.
MBR: Really? Speaking?
TP: Yeah. A speaking contest just like the – they call it spelling bees. Just like that.
MBR: Right. Right.
TP: And extracurricular activity or – not cultural-wise. Enrichment-wise, we had talent shows. Oh, yes. Talent shows. Some of the guys who were up there had comedian skills. They were comedians. Then you had some of the girls who they formed like – not a duet. A trio. And then you had the individual vocalists who sang. And guess what?
MBR: All right. Winning?
TP: I was the top. Oh, I was a great singer. Serious. As they would say today, I used to rock the house.
MBR: That’s great.
TP: Because of the fact that I lived out in the country, so to entertain myself, we used the jukebox, the little piccolos may have been a mile or so away, but whenever the newest record comes out, they would turn up the volume loud. You could hear for about a mile. So therefore and the few chances I got to listen to the radio on the weekends, I used to listen to the singers, performers and started imitating them. Now, as I said, it was a form of enrichment for me, because what helped me to enjoy and forget about the hard work that I have to perform. So therefore, I didn’t know anything about a guitar, strumming a guitar, but I used to go up there and pretend. Pretend. I had two pictures, and I’ve looked high and low for those pictures of me in high school. And I was so popular then.
MBR: I think that’s great.
TP: My brother came, because I wanted my mother to come, but my mother was so tired to come, so she would tell my brother to go by and watch your brother. Observe. And oh, man. I used to be the talk of their school and the community.
MBR: Oh, we need one of those pictures.
TP: Yes. I will find it eventually, just like I cannot find my college diploma or my high school diploma, because I had them framed along with my – what do you call it? My honor roll certificates from college. They’re all in the same type of frame and I only found one of those, and they should have been in the same place.
MBR: Yeah. That happens doesn’t it?
TP: Yes. You know, because I have so many boxes. We’ve moved several times. Anyhow.
MBR: I have one last question.
TP: What?
MBR: All right. So you worked very hard at school.
TP: Yes.
MBR: You worked very hard at home.
TP: Yes.
MBR: How was your high school romantic life? I mean, was there a social life as well? If you understand what I mean.
TP: Oh, yes. It was social.
MBR: Like when you said it is hard working and having – and I didn’t know if there were dances.
TP: Oh, yes. There were dances.
MBR: And where you got to mix with the girls in the neighborhood.
TP: Yes. Yes.
MBR: And so that was probably very much – were the same chaperoned here?
TP: Oh, yes. The dances were chaperoned. They definitely were chaperoned. And we got to intermingle with the girls at high school after school, and then we dated them in the community here. We traveled miles to have a social life on feet. Okay? Many miles. We traveled.
MBR: What would a date be when you’re from the country? As you say, you were on foot.
TP: What would a date be?
MBR: Yeah. What would a high school date be?
TP: Getting permission when you reach the age of about 18 to ask the parents of a young lady who was interested in you and you were interested in them for permission to come to visit them.
MBR: Just for a visit?
TP: Yeah. To visit.
MBR: There wasn’t a movie involved or you know what I mean?
TP: Not back in those days. We used to go to movies, but we went to movies alone because it was like cowboy movies. We used to walk from point A to point B and so forth. And to go to the city, we didn’t have transportation. We would have to get the bus and what have you, so we didn’t go to the movies a lot then. It wasn’t that up to speed.
MBR: I see.
TP: But it was enjoyable.
MBR: So that gives me kind of a sense of that bigger map that you’re in. When you look back, and I know you came here very excited to talk about your experience, and you’ve touched on a lot of things here. But the legacy. The legacy of this school and why it’s important, and why you thought you need to be here today to kind of to spread the word about it. Could you talk a little bit how it shaped you and your life that your years here?
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: Is that too much to ask?
TP: Oh, no. It’s not.
MBR: Okay. I think we need to hear that.
TP: Yes. It really helped shape my life well, because as I said before, I didn’t want to stay around and work on the farm or become a laborer. Okay? I was born with the potential of becoming someone who would create or invent something that was more or different. Okay? My mother saw it within me. I had two persons other. They weren’t the only two, but my godmother was an older lady, like a spinster, she was sharp. She would come by. She lived across the pasture, and we lived at Big House. She would come through to go and visit whomever in the community and she would call me Bretta, instead of saying Brother, because my nickname was Brother. And she said, “Bretta.” I said, “Yes, Aunt Martha.” She said, “Come here, boy. Come go to the store and get me some beer and some tobacco.” She loved her Burgee beer and her tobacco that she would smoke in the back. Then she would give me the stipend for doing it. She said, “Bretta.” “Yes, Aunt Martha.” “Oh, now one day you’re going to be just like your pa.” I said, “You think so?” “Yeah. That’s Tom Prioleau all over. You’re going to be just like your grandpa.” Okay. I heard that for many years. And then I had an aunt, my father’s sister, and she used to tell my cousin who was her grand – she said, “Thomas.” I said, “Yes, Grandma.” She said, “Thomas is going to be something. There’s something in you.”
Boy, this is a long one. I think I’ve-
MBR: No. It’s good.
TP: I used to take things in order to survive, in order to entertain ourselves. We had to create a lot of play toys and stuff. Okay? So we would challenge each other in the community by creating making a car out of wires. Hanger wires, crate wires. And shape it just like a car. Put the doors on that open, sometimes make it a convertible. Have the trunk and the hood whereby you could open it. Okay? And things of this nature. We created because we didn’t have the money. The family didn’t have money. It’s not like the children of today are spoiled, because – my wife and I was talking as we always do in the car coming here how parents today buy their kids love and care by giving them new sneakers and new jeans, the new cellphone because they want it. No. You know? There’s more. So we learned to do without it, so therefore we used what God give us and a lot when we were coming up. And we used to compete with each other to entertain.
Now, I observed the teachers. The way they dressed, the way they taught us, the way that they expect us to learn, that way they motivate us to learn to do better so that not only that they could feel good about it, they wanted to see us excel because then their job would have been completed. Okay? We often visited several of our teachers after going away to college. Oh, yes. I used to come often. Whenever I got the chance to come home. And we even visited them and associated with them even after we graduated and became professionals and became adults, had children and so forth, we saw them. Okay? And they were happy to see us return to them. Okay?
Now, just let them know that we appreciated and thank you all for what you all do for us and to let them know that things are going well for us. And I’ll share this with you. Pardon me. When we were graduating and we found out what we were going to do, and we discussed it with the teachers and what have you, now, prior to that, coming through high school we were divided into three different groups. Tracks, academically, everybody would determine what courses we would be enrolled in in the high school. It was the general certificate, it was for vocational and clerical. This was the middle one. And there were college prep. Okay? Myself and my cousin and several others, those of us who went beyond high school. Okay? To a higher echelon. We enrolled in college prep. And the guys who wanted to go to vocational or clerical, that’s the area that got their certificate in. And the others just got job certificate. Something slipped my mind. Okay. So therefore we did our best to excel to the greatest extent. They helped to prepare us in those capacities.
MBR: In each of those tracks.
TP: Yes. Those areas, tracks.
MBR: What the choices were.
TP: Yes. And we pursued it, even throughout the end. Even after we graduated. There are several entrepreneurs who are in our class who are still alive now. Several that passed away. Okay? Now, I was most financially deprived, economically deprived who went away to college, and I was able to go to college because I was so determined, because I didn’t want my cousin, William, to leave me. He was smarter than me, he made the high score on the SATs.
MBR: SATs?
TP: You know? So my cousin and my teacher had already finished the South Carolina State College and they were working. I didn’t have any means of supporting me financially to go. So therefore, I was worried, upset, and my mother was upset because of it. So then my mother spoke to her brother’s son, George, who had graduated already. He was an educational mentor in the community down at the Bic House. And she lived in that house. He was the only child who is still alive. He had an older brother who died accidentally. So my mother spoke to him and he referred my mother to my cousin, William, who was the agriculture teacher. She said, “William.” He said, “Yes, Cousin Ida .” “Where could-” [Audio cut out] [“Could you please help my son to go to college and find him a job?” “Yes” cousin answered.]
MBR: So proud of yourself. I can only imagine everybody who helped make that a reality for you-
TP: Right.
MBR: …must have felt the same way. I don’t know what your godmother said?
TP: Yes.
MBR: You’re going to be someone?
TP: Yes. But in closing up, yes. I have utilized my nurturing of the community, my parents, and exposure, and experience in the world. And needless to say, the school and the teachers. And what I vision after I left school and I traveled places in the world, and communicating, working with and teaching many children whereby it of course helped me to do many things.
MBR: No.
TP: Can’t say no more.
MBR: Hold on.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: The Elrays?
TP: Yeah.
MBR: All right.
TP: I wrote as a kid. I wrote short stories, skits comparatively related to the reading books that we used and as I said, we used to sing in the dining hall while washing dishes at night.
MBR: No?
TP: Yeah. And a lot of the professors from the college, she was on our trip and the economic teacher, he owned one of the black theaters downtown in Orangeburg. And for entertainment, et cetera, he put up a flier and asked for several groups to come forth and he had a contest at the theater. I was always the lead singer. And this gentleman, he said, “Please, Thomas, come with us. Get together. And let’s sing.” And we sang the song “Happy Birthday.” I was the lead singer.
MBR: Right here?
TP: Yeah. We won second place and the Orangeburg Group, they won first place. And we got 15 dollars for second place.
MBR: That’s great! Not bad.
TP: And first place-
MBR: You look like you went to prep school.
TP: Yes.
MBR: That outfit.
TP: Yes.
MBR: I mean, really, you’re pretty dapper.
TP: Yes.
MBR: I mean, you are today, but I mean even as a kid.
TP: Yeah. Well, we-
MBR: Oh, this is great.
TP: We had black pants, white shirt and red sweater.
MBR: A red sweater.
TP: Yes. And we called it the El Rays.
MBR: I love it.
TP: So we did that then.
MBR: That’s wonderful.
TP: And since I wrote many poems in my life, there’s a collection of poems that I wrote and published.
MBR: Oh, my gosh.
TP: That’s the copy I dedicated to my wife. The areas that I covered was life, humanity, love, education and nature. Those were the five areas. There’s well over 200 poems in there.
MBR: That’s what I was just going to say. This is marvelous. So you became a writer.
TP: Yes.
MBR: A teacher.
TP: A teacher, a designer, an entrepreneur.
MBR: And a storyteller.
TP: A publisher, author.
MBR: And a storyteller.
TP: And a storyteller.
MBR: This is fantastic.
TP: And my love for children-
MBR: Is – Oh, I like that one.
TP: Following my mother’s legacy.
MBR: You put a guide in parenthood. Wow.
TP: See my stick figures?
MBR: Yes, I am.
TP: I took my stick figures and I-
MBR: They work.
TP: Yes. And I used – and my buddy and I was out fishing one day, and we were trying to think about an image so that we were not being prejudice. Or what’s the word?
MBR: Right. Stereotype or whatever.
TP: Not stereotyping. Come on. What’s the word? Not disrespecting anyone. We chose the image of the dolphin. Because one day we were fishing and these dolphins came up along us, and I thought they were porpoises. But then I noticed that they were pink. He said those are dolphins. I said, “They are?” And the things that they did around that boat that day that caused me – I said, “I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to adopt a dolphin.” Because they were not – what’s that word? They will not disrespect anyone, because it’s an image of-
MBR: It’s universal.
TP: Yes. That is universal. And they’re smart.
MBR: And pretty cute ones.
TP: And if you leave it on that, I did my stick figures. I had an associate who was an older gentleman than me. He had an art business when he did sign painting and everything. And then I had connected with another gentleman who was in screen printing and sign making. Okay? In a different town. And he referred me to the first person before, who was also an artist. And he said he couldn’t do it. Neither one of them could do the work that I want done. So this gentleman referred me to his daughter. Yes.
MBR: Right here.
TP: No. And she did all of the graphics.
MBR: Kathy Durette [Phonetic]
TP: I’ve never seen the woman or met her in my life.
MBR: But she did them for you.
TP: She lived in New York and she was a professional graphic artist. And she and I talked for over an hour, just by phone. And she said, “If my dad recommended you to me, I will do it for you, although me and my dad don’t get along.” So that woman did all of that professional work for me.
MBR: Wow. That’s pretty cool.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: Well, I know this has been a great interview, and I can’t thank you enough for speaking with me today. I think you’re showing me right now what it meant to be a Meggett graduate.
TP: Yes.
MBR: But you’re also telling me about family and how important that was, too. I can’t thank you enough for sharing it. Is there anything I should have asked you and I didn’t ask you about? Is there anything that – you’ve got more in this bag.
TP: Oh, jeez. If you would have – I may have had to put you out if you came to my house. I want to show you this last piece here. I gave a copy of my books that came out in ’92. “A Prominent Figure Representing New York” as a token for Mayor Dinkin’s achievement. Next time I will use the – now, as for myself, after this I want to show you one thing.
MBR: Okay. You’re doing great with that, actually. “Individual Rights: A Child’s Outcry.” “I am what I am; an individual, yet different. Therefore, why can’t you accept me or let me be that in which I am? Trying not to force me to become someone that I am really not. So why not guide me and support me so that we may succeed.” That’s lovely.
TP: All of that stuff has to do with what I became after being in this community, as I said before. All of that which I was before and a part of this school. I couldn’t have done it without it.
MBR: I see it here. I know it. I know. That’s beautiful.
TP: And that’s the only – see, that’s the new poem.
MBR: Is that your graduation picture?
TP: Yeah.
MBR: You were so young.
TP: Yes.
MBR: So young.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: This is your mom?
TP: That’s my mama.
MBR: She’s pretty.
TP: Thank you. Yep. A well-loved person.
MBR: It says 49 Trevor Road behind it.
TP: Yeah. That’s where I used to live. And see, since I wanted to show you my doggies.
MBR: Now you know I’m a sucker for dogs.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: I knew I was in trouble when you said you had two, and I’m like, “Oh.” I love my dogs, too. Really a lot.
TP: Yeah. We sit out on the back porch playing with those two.
MBR: They’re in great shape.
TP: Yeah.
MBR: How old?
TP: They’re younger. They’re about four years old. Now, I forgot what we said the other day. About nine? I think they’re about nine. And this is Spike. This is Spike prior to those two. And Spike, oh, she was a fine dog. Everybody loved her. They would only bother individuals who are up to no good. Okay? And Spike, Spike lived for a long time. We buried her on the corner of the property and what have you. These two are still alive.
MBR: They’re still going?
TP: These are the two brats. They’re at the dog motel. Yeah. That’s what my son would say. And these back in – I figure I’ll burst your bubble by bringing my two. You see what those are?
MBR: Good Lord.
TP: That’s what I used to-
MBR: Those were your tomatoes?
TP: No. You know what those are?
MBR: No.
TP: Those are domestic persimmons.
MBR: No way.
TP: The Fuyu type. Yes.
MBR: Are you kidding?
TP: I’m serious. I used to raise them, but the tree died.
MBR: You got that many?
TP: Yes. That was about two bushels.
MBR: From one tree?
TP: From one tree. And these-
MBR: What did you do with all of them?
TP: Gave it away. I used to bring them here.
MBR: Oh, my goodness.
TP: And this is to my folks, and these are – those are – what do you call the thing? Those are apples. Those are apples. But all of these are persimmons. And you talk about sweet, oh, gosh.
MBR: So prolific.
TP: Yes. Yes. I grew better ones than the ones you get in the supermarket. I’m serious.
MBR: Oh, my gosh. That’s what I mean. They look like tomatoes, their size.
TP: Yes. Yes. Oh, one that I grew one year that was about that size. And now the tree has died. And these are – my wife used to love.
MBR: What are those?
TP: My wife loved fruits, so therefore I just spoiled her. Those are different varieties of plums.
MBR: Wow. Look at those colors.
TP: Yes. Yes. I did the things that I did not get to do or get to have while I was a kid. See? We had the wild persimmons around and some of the wild plums, so therefore I just repeated myself and all that stuff.
MBR: This is something.
TP: Yeah. But see, this is – here’s my competitor.
MBR: No. Is this William?
TP: Yeah. He passed away.
MBR: No. Did he?
TP: He passed away.
MBR: I thought – oh.
TP: You see, like I said, we’re the two who was most likely to succeed. He became a lieutenant colonel and I became a-
MBR: And he’s interred at Fort Jackson? Is he buried there?
TP: Yes. Yes. Because they lived in Camden, South Carolina.
MBR: Okay.
TP: He lived in Camden, and his wife’s not far away.
MBR: He was a handsome man too.
TP: Yes. Yes. I’m a year and about three months older than him.
MBR: This was a treat meeting him, too. Because you really gave me a vision or a feeling for the two of you being neck-in-neck.
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: You know, I did not know – I learned that South Carolina was one of the first states to require the SATs.
TP: Oh, yes.
MBR: And I didn’t know that. That was one of the things they did to put barriers up actually.
TP: Yes. Yes. Yes.
MBR: And you guys obviously aced them, so haha.
TP: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I made enough to enter college, which was good.
MBR: Oh, yeah. Can I ask if Terry can – is that you, Terry? I think we’re finishing up.
TP: Go ahead.
MBR: But he brought so many goodies.
TP: Oh, great.
MBR: This is their house. I’m going to say Bic House?
TP: Bic House.
MBR: Bic House.
TP: The area is called Big House because of that house. That was my great grandfather’s house. And it was the largest house and the strongest house in the community. And then so therefore, colloquially, they said Bic House. As kids they learned how to speak – you know, pronounce? Yeah. And that’s the way it stayed.
MBR: Like the whole area was called that. Bic House.
TP: Okay. Okay.
MBR: Isn’t that neat? And here he is singing for the El Rays.
TP: Yeah. The El Rays.
MBR: Book of poetry. Meggett did good.
TP: Excellent.
MBR: Meggett did really good on this man.
TP: Yes, they did.
MBR: No. No. Okay. Well, I guess we can turn that off if we could. Now I’m going to – oh, and Terry. This is graduation.
TP: Okay. So we have a-
