This interview was conducted on behalf of Charleston County as part of the project: Stories from Historic African American Communities: A Journey to Equal Education, W. Gresham Meggett High School, James Island, SC. Charleston County was awarded a grant from the Department of Interior and National Park Service (NPS) in 2018 to conduct this oral history project aims to provide insight into the lives of African American students during desegregation. The project is structured by the NPS research framework: Civil Rights in America: A Framework for Identifying Significant Sites (2002, rev. 2008).
This interview was conducted on February 23, 2019 at W. Gresham Meggett School (Septimal P. Clark Academy), James Island, Charleston County, South Carolina. David Richardson (Meggett alumni working on behalf of New South Associates) is the interviewer; Terri Gillett (New South Associates) assisted.
Ned Roper: What’s the extent? Are we going to just talk? What’s the plan? I brought some books-
David Richardson: Well, I’m going to–I have a series of questions that I’m going to ask you and allow you to respond. And towards the end, if there’s anything that I might have missed, you’ll get a chance to be able to-
NR: Okay.
DR: To some extent. All right. Everybody ready?
Terri Gillett: Ready.
DR: Today is February 23, 2019. My name is David Backman Richardson. We are at W. Gresham Meggett High School in one of the classrooms. And I am about now to begin to interview with please state your full name and address, sir.
NR: Ned Bernard Roper Junior. 1916 Allen Brown Lane, Charleston, South Carolina, 29412.
DR: What is your date of birth?
NR: My date of birth is 21 July, 1951.
DR: Where were you born?
NR: I was born James Island, South Carolina, primarily on Grimball Road, Barn Hill.
DR: How was it that you was born on James Island and Barn Hill?
NR: Well, my father who had always wanted children, my mother did, too. I have two older sisters. And for sure, he had plans on that farm, and he definitely was going to try for a son, and sure enough, his try worked out and I was the first born son.
DR: Who delivered you?
NR: My grandmother. Feedie Roper. Yes, she did.
DR: We’re going to talk about her a little later.
NR: Amen.
DR: Okay?
NR: Amen.
DR: So where did you spend most of your childhood?
NR: All of my childhood up until the age of about I’d say 19 was spent on James Island. I lived there, worked there, grew there, matured in my young life, church life on Barn Hill, James Island primarily. Charleston, farm markets, Johns Island, Mount Pleasant, all around the low country with farmers like my dad. So I grew up in this area.
DR: What was your father’s name?
NR: My dad was Ned Roper and clearly, he was his own man.
DR: And where was he born?
NR: He was born on James Island.
DR: What was his occupation?
NR: His occupation was farming, my Lord.
DR: Okay. How many acres that he farmed, you think?
NR: On average, at one point I think – because he rented properties, and around the area back then was a lot of farming areas available. Folks would lease it out. He had in his family I would say about maybe 50 acres, give or take, family owned. And then I would say about 75 – no, I’d say about maybe same, 50, that he leased out to different locations.
DR: Were there other African American farmers on James Island at the time?
NR: Oh, my god. Yes. My, god, yes.
DR: So what would you rate your father’s in terms of size of other farmers’ operations?
NR: On the island, James Island especially, he was by far – and that’s not brag, but fact as to one of the dominant farmers a young man with a plan, and he had his goals and aspirations, and he’s the first who gave me understanding of vision, goals and aspiration. And he had plans on doing more with what he had and hence had his own market, he and his mother, we had a farmer’s market on Father Road. So his aspiration was bigger than just farming there and he would provide vegetables to the local grocery stores in and around the Charleston area. So again, I’m not sure if I answered your question. But he had vision.
DR: What was your mother’s name?
NR: My mother, my dear mother was Katie Elizabeth Simmons Roper.
DR: Where was she born?
NR: She was born not on the island. She was born proudly from Moncks Corner, Cordesville area, in that area.
DR: Explain a little more about your mother’s hometown and where she was born and connection with some other historical-
NR: Oh, Lord. Yes, my mother, who had a very strong memory – I thought my dad did, but my mother kept numbers, names, situations intact in her mind, sometimes scary. So she knew many folks, and overtime her history would bring her forth in working with the various other writers, and she was very instrumental in helping him put his thoughts further beyond where he was writing about his family’s – slaves in the family, get his first name, Ball. But he was very active in researching who she was or her family, Haywood family, and she was very active in bringing up oral history clearly, distinctly that tracked very closely to the letter on dates, the names of folks who were once slaves.
DR: Her memory was very much intact.
NR: Very much.
DR: She had a photographic memory.
NR: My, God. Scary. Once we heard the stories, she would track even deeper in communicating with him on how much he knew in written history from the books of the slave masters, and she could go back as far as her memory in talking with her grandparent who was a slave.
DR: How many siblings did you have?
NR: I have, again, three other siblings. One has gone onto glory, but I have two older sisters, as I said, and a younger brother. And again, that’s the blessing. Dad’s future was wanting sons, and clearly I was one and then he was two. And so God to be the glory.
DR: Let’s go back to what kind of occupation did your mother perform?
NR: My mother, God bless her, was a jack of trades in many things, but her heart was in nursing. She had a large family, and all her brothers and sisters, all but two survived, and I think she had about maybe 13 brothers and sisters of which two survived. Her older brother and many others passed in the middle and hence what she saw as a young child inspired her to get into medicine. And so she was a midwife, and that was her goal. That was her goal, and that was what she did once she came to Charleston from that area that she grew up, was to get into medicine. So she worked as a cleaning individual, and once blacks entered the field of medical needs, they taught, and she got to know the doctors in the area, worked very closely with, and inspired her to take the midwife training and the rest was history with that.
DR: So you had two women in your immediate family that were midwives?
NR: Yes. Yes.
DR: That was your grandmother?
NR: Hm-hmm [affirmative].
DR: And her name again was?
NR: Mary Roper.
DR: And your mother?
NR: Katie Simmons Roper.
DR: Now, what else did Ms. Katie Simmons Roper did other than worked as a nurse?
NR: Well, again, she recognized very much and helped me inspire – helped me to know and understand my father’s vision. So when I didn’t quite get it, she helped me understand the importance of his vision and she supported him, so she was a farming wife. She drove, she worked hard with the people, inspired, led, and she ran that market wholeheartedly. And that was her work and her love. So, yeah. She was a working woman.
DR: You ever seen her on a tractor?
NR: She would not. She stayed very clearly – I don’t think it was a question. She would do everything, anything that was needed. That was one thing that she would never do. And so she never did, no.
DR: Where did your parents go to school?
NR: Oh, Lord. Powerful words. My mother was very strong on education and knowledge. Not to say my dad wasn’t, but my mother was the true disciplinary. You were going to get the books and she would make sure, and she would work with you closely. If she didn’t understand, she would sit beside you and help you memorize whatever you were working on. And so she was very close with that. My father, not as much, but he pushed-
DR: Where did she go to school?
NR: She went to school in a graded school, and I can’t remember the name, in Cordesville, Moncks Corner of which her father and a few other senior individuals worked hard to try and get a black school together. And there was historical notes that came about and we found out details that she spoke about that clearly was articulated in the same book with Edwin Ball.
DR: Ball, Edwin?
NR: Edwin Ball. Yes. And he touched on that. Her parents were very active there, too. Yes.
DR: So there was emphasis on education in your family?
NR: Oh, yes.
DR: And much of that came from your mother?
NR: Mother.
DR: Where did your siblings go to school?
NR: My two older sisters graduated and matriculated from this grade school. My youngest sister graduated two years ahead of me, and my older sister graduated three years ahead, so she was a ’66, and she was ’67. And I graduated in ’69.
DR: ’69. You were the last.
NR: The last class.
DR: So you were younger than your sisters, then.
NR: Oh, yes. And they made sure that even though I had a lot of privilege on the farm, my mother made sure, “Yeah, you have privileges as the older son, but-”
DR: Now you said you graduated from Gresham Meggett in ’69, but where did you go to elementary school?
NR: I’m sorry?
DR: Where did you go to elementary school?
NR: Well, I started here at Gresham Meggett when it was an elementary school and a high school. We took schools there. I took classes here. And then when Baxter-Patrick opened up, we were the first graduating class that left Baxter-Patrick coming back to high school here. Yeah.
DR: Okay. And where was Baxter-Patrick?
NR: Baxter-Patrick was less than a half a mile from my house.
DR: So you were able to walk to school?
NR: I walked to school.
DR: So when you came to Gresham Meggett, how did you get to school?
NR: Well, at that point in time, we rode the bus. And then back in those days, you could drive school buses. And because I was an avid driver then, I started driving once I was, what? 15 or 16? 16 years old I was a driver.
DR: 16?
NR: Yes.
DR: Yes. Yes. So Gresham Meggett, location and proximity to where you lived, if you didn’t drive the school bus-
NR: We walked. We walked.
DR: So most of the people in your immediate community went to this community school?
NR: Yeah. Community school was key.
DR: You mentioned something about Baxter-Patrick.
NR: Yes.
DR: You said that was right down the street from you?
NR: From my house, it’s not in rock throwing, but not far. Less than a half a mile, if that. Walking distance from my home on Grimball Road going I guess southwest. Yeah. Not far from my home was Baxter-Patrick.
DR: So when you transferred here, what year was that when you transferred from Baxter-Patrick?
NR: I would have to do the math. I can’t remember exactly.
DR: What grade were you?
NR: I was I think in the seventh grade.
DR: Seventh grade?
NR: Yeah.
DR: So that’s five through 12, right?
NR: Yes.
DR: So five, before ’69?
NR: Yes. Yeah.
DR: Okay. So that was about 1964.
NR: ’64, somewhere around that time.
DR: Okay. All right. Any significant difference between the physical structure of Baxter-Patrick and Gresham Meggett?
NR: Well, for me, the fact that being one of physical presence, I would always look at how this school was built. And clearly when Baxter-Patrick was being built, being a farm boy, I wanted to see how they did what they did, and I saw how they built that, and I knew a lot of carpenters, and I loved carpentry so I watched how they built that and the structure, and then watched this. So clearly, there was a big difference in what it offered. And they offered the same thing, but they would have to rebuild here, do some construction. I watched some of that happen here as they tore our doors and to change up the sizes here in this building.
DR: So you were here before they added the other wings? Or you came afterwards?
NR: They were just building the final wing on the backside.
DR: The backside?
NR: They were just finishing that. These major wings, first two wings, I remember those. The other one, they were just finishing up.
DR: How many students were in your class when you came here? And what year that was when you transferred to Gresham Meggett?
NR: I’m thinking about what? ’64?
DR: ’64?
NR: ’64.
DR: Okay.
NR: I can’t remember the size, but there were some folks who came and some left. And then based through matriculation, I guess whatever situations they were dealing with in their life. Our class dwindled down to 78.
DR: When you graduated?
NR: When I graduated.
DR: But when you transferred-
NR: It was much larger.
DR: Much larger?
NR: Much larger.
DR: So there were more than one class of the same grade, then?
NR: Yes.
DR: Do you remember some of the teachers?
NR: In my early years, I do, because we were close to the teachers. One that stands out in my heart of hearts was my first grade teacher, Ms. Grayson. She took me from first grade into second.
DR: And this is at Baxter-Patrick?
NR: No. This was here.
DR: Oh, here?
NR: I started here. First grade here.
DR: Okay.
NR: In fact, the room across the hall, that was first grade. And second grade was the next class over. So I recall that vividly.
DR: And those teachers were?
NR: One was Ms. Grayson. Then there was Ms. Dunkin, Ms. Hampton, Ms. Cunx [phonetic 00:16:05], Ms. Spears, and those were the higher grades. And then there were others, but those stand out, because they clearly tracked with my mom and what she expected being here in this classroom. And so that was very key for me and many others as to what the expectations were here.
DR: Are you suggesting that you had very in-depth parental interest in your education?
NR: Oh, without a doubt.
DR: And support?
NR: Oh, my Lord. Without a doubt. Yeah.
DR: They were directly involved? She was directly involved in your education?
NR: When she came to visit on whatever – just walking through, there was times that all I recall, if I may, one that stands out in my mind, in the sixth grade or fifth grade–fifth grade, we were doing the division problem on the chalkboard, and I was to divide six into 666, and I could visibly see that. And she walked by the classroom and the teacher spoke to her, and I was stuck in not being able to know how to just do the division, and I just locked myself into-
DR: You were petrified.
NR: Petrified. There was nothing wrong, and they explained there was nothing wrong. But 6 into 666.
DR: You testified a minute ago that your mother had a photographic memory. How much of that did you pick up?
NR: Not much. Not much.
DR: Any of your siblings?
NR: I think my oldest sister, Charlotte. She has the depth of knowledge from that vantage point.
DR: How would you describe your relationship with the teachers here?
NR: Without a doubt, much respect. Again, that’s what we were taught. That clearly, that they were here to give me something. They didn’t promise you anything, because you’ve got to get what they have to give. And she says – Mom – you need to receive it. So whatever they have to offer, you need to take that and part it and come on home, and that was her point, come on home and we’ll help work with you back here.
DR: Would you say that the teachers helped to nurture you?
NR: Oh, my god.
DR: How would you describe that? What do you mean when you said that? They nurtured you?
NR: Expectations. Encouragement and empowerment that you have the power to do anything you put your mind in. But you’ve got to put your mind into it. Don’t let distracters, including your friends, not even me as your teacher, though I’m going to push you to do better. I love you, but you’re not going to sit here idly by and waste my time, your time, and most definitely your parents’ time, because they want you here to educate. And so the empowerment was there. And you got it at home in a loving way. Here in the schoolhouse, it was no different as to we have expectations. If you’ve got a question, ask it. But you will learn. You can learn, so therefore do.
DR: At that time, would you say there was a great tendency on the parents’ part to really trust the teachers?
NR: Without a doubt. Without a doubt. And if there was a question, and we had one or two cases with trust issues, but the PTA and individual responsibility of parents, which was my mother, would come and work behind the scenes to find out what’s going on, what’s happening if there’s a concern with a student or some miscommunication where we’re not sure if that child is either capturing it or doesn’t understand or if there’s a distraction. Because we’re all working kids.
DR: Now that’s what Ms. Katie did. But what about some of the other parents? You had that same collective interest about other students’ parents?
NR: As I can recall, and hearing, again, conversations with my older sisters, my mom, again, I can only picture my walk more so that they were older, so I would hear the conversations about relationships and attitudes and challenges, so I would overhear it, and then I would look at me as to what – I’m not having this issue. Because, again, to me, it was a little different and I don’t have a good appreciation of the challenges, but clearly there were different concerns that were raised at different levels. But in my case, I didn’t have any concerns such as that. Whereas she needed to get involved one or two maybe. One or two, but mostly there was issues with understanding families and challenges of clothes and dress. That was, to me, more girl kind of issues than whatever else as I can recall.
DR: Now, are you aware of the fact that James Island High School was also located on James Island?
NR: Yes.
DR: And do you know what type of students went to school there?
NR: Oh, yes. Most definitely. That was a white school.
DR: And Gresham Meggett?
NR: Gresham Meggett was a black school.
DR: Did you have any classmates during the time you were at Gresham Meggett that went over to James Island High?
NR: One of my classmates. A good friend to this day, one James Grant. And we communicated here and when he transferred over I would see him in the neighborhood. And we’ve communicated from then to now on just life and what we’ve had to challenge, deal with and growth, and just work going forward.
DR: So you told me James Grant from Cut Bridge?
NR: Oh, yes. Yes.
DR: Mrs. Grant – Elizabeth was his mother’s name.
NR: Yes.
DR: Yes. Okay. He now lives in Maryland.
NR: He lives in Maryland.
DR: Yes.
NR: Columbia, Maryland.
DR: Absolutely. Yes. Based on the information and experience that you had and occurred at the time, how would you compare your vision of what the difference in the schools were?
NR: Give me a second, because that’s been a hard tale, but I understood. I swallowed it hard. I knew what the motivation was for me and my household. I knew and understand the motivation of what my teachers wanted me to get. And I can recall one or two times here that I questioned why we didn’t have enough Bunsen burners, because I liked science.
DR: In the chemistry lab?
NR: In the chemistry lab. And that teacher was Mr. Salters [phonetic 00:22:54]. And he was stressed because he didn’t have enough items to teach. But I remember that. To go back, when I went to South Carolina State, my goal was to be all that I could be, and I thought I wanted to be a mechanical engineer. But I realized when I got there the depth of knowledge that I got here was not enough to push me over the hump in that field, calculus. And I didn’t fail, but it bothered me because I couldn’t attain what I wanted to. But again, going back to teachers and parents, my mother had always told me you’ve got to put your mind on what God has for you to do. And you’re there. And my dad wanted me to go. I shifted from mechanical engineering and I spoke to my teacher who now was a professor who moved up to South Carolina State and taught biology. And he told me-
DR: And who was that teacher? Salters?
NR: Dr. Salters. And he always told me, “If you need me, come by and see me.” And at that point in my career, I realized what I didn’t have here. And I remember him saying in a frustrating point, “We don’t have what we don’t have.” And I went to him, stressed, because I felt I can’t go back to that. I can’t fail. I’ve got things to do. So when I went to see him, he said, “Roper, I was wondering when you were going to come over here and see me. You see me around the campus. How are you doing?” “Doc, I’m not doing well. I realized what I don’t have, and I’ve got classmates in other states, other cities who are coming with tools that I-” He said, well, I’ll never fail. “You’ve got to consider some of the things that we’ve always taught you to have; a love for different things. Have you thought about other fields? Have you thought about biology? Teaching? Doctor? You don’t have to stay there.”
So my point in that whole thing was, one, I remember him then, hearing his frustration, not appreciating it, but getting there, and then recognizing what I didn’t have there, not allowing myself to feel put down, but going to another avenue. And I completed that with my degree in biology. And then my doctorate in ecology. Masters. So again, it’s an area that interests me. It didn’t help me in the Military, but it did work well for me.
DR: Given the limitation of your resources at Gresham Meggett, do you think those same limitations of resources were present at the white school?
NR: When James and I have spoken on occasion, going back in his dynamics-
Sildenafil jelly is also available in many delicious savors such cialis generico mastercard as orange, pineapple, mango, mint, strawberry etc. viagra professional uk Such medicines are typically followed by one or more of the following: Psychotherapy: you talk through feelings about the phobia, exploring possible links with past problems. Many men believe that their levitra overnight manhood is vanishing, and their self-confidence and self-esteem seems to vanish, as well. Follow a balanced diet and purchasing this levitra sale get enough physical activity.DR: This is James?
NR: Right.
DR: Okay. Because he was one of the persons who transferred?
NR: Yes.
DR: You all remained friends?
NR: Yes.
DR: And go ahead.
NR: He reiterated similar kind of concerns. But James is a smart guy. And Mom and Dad, educationally, strengthened him in many ways. And that was a good thing. My parents did the best they could. They gave me other kind of strengths, and we shared that kind of accomplishes. Strengths from others, physical direct action, getting it, that kind of thing. So I had those strengths. And didn’t appreciate it until much later, but he had strength, knowledge at home, strength folks there, and he took that on. So we’ve shared and understood what we’ve brought home and put it in place to move forward. Key word being moving forward with the little that you had and what you did. So we talked about what strength they had to offer. The courses and the books, and the courses and the books here clearly, I shared that again with Dr. Salters, because some of our books were used, batter, some parts were not there. So you go to what you’ve got.
DR: So in other words, your books here were not up to par-
NR: Not up to par.
DR: …compared to what James had at James Island High School.
NR: Right. Right. Right. Didn’t understand that, because you don’t know what you don’t know. Later on in education, when you get to talk and meet on a different plane with Dr. Salters, and we understood, older now, missing out on what you’ve missed out. Didn’t know any better. You did the best you can, but you don’t know. How much could he have passed onto us that would help us beyond this? Teaching the best he can to keep us moving.
DR: Would you say that your books at Gresham Meggett might have been obsolete?
NR: Some of them were.
DR: Why would you say that? What evidence?
NR: Now as I look back then, and looking at the fact that some were used, pages torn, maybe out of step with where reality is, knowledge continues to improve. If you’ve got the knowledge, put it in the books so the children can learn. I mean, before we thought, as we did back then, that Pluto was the final planet, but we know that there’s more out there.
DR: How come you didn’t go to James Island High School?
NR: Simple. To the point. One, I realized, not initially, but again, my dear mother helped me understand the importance of what my dad’s vision was, and he was a black farmer doing very well. And he helped me to understand your dad’s a proud black man who’s working on his own and on one occasion when I thought I wanted to play football in the evening time, and she helped me break it down. “What do you think you need to do to help your dad? Football? Or he needs your hand, man, work on this farm? He is working hard and he needs your help. What do you think the solution is?” So with that regard, football, and then I started realizing and I thought I would want to go, but then I started weighing out the most bang for my buck is being where I’m at, to continue to do what I needed to do. And of course he pushed for me to go get the education, but he needed me here.
DR: So you’re saying that your mother helped you to very early decide priorities?
NR: Priorities. Yes.
DR: And focus on what’s most important?
NR: Most important things. And I remember that to this day. First things first. There’s a lot of things you want to do, but you’ve got to eat and you’ve got-
DR: So you would describe your mom and dad as entrepreneurs?
NR: Oh, yes.
DR: Independent business people.
NR: Independent.
DR: Were there many other African American families on the island like that?
NR: The one that clearly – my mom and dad. My dad knew a lot of people on the island, and by far, from a fishing point of view, the Backman family stands out, and again, you had [Andrew] “Apple” Wilder and a few others that he knew when he was going to talk and deal with the business of getting things done, and understanding the challenges that you will run into. They would understand and communicate how to, again, save, fight and push forward. So clearly there was someone on the island by far he knew – he knew many – those stand out. And again, the Grants, he knew them. But again, they were business people too and he communicated accordingly.
DR: So you’re saying that the names you just mentioned were business operators on the island and there was a communication among that group of people in their individual operation with shared knowledge and experience?
NR: Shared knowledge, and the times as a little boy I’d ride with him and you’d have those – I call them roadside counseling sessions on the side of the road or whatever. Folks would pull over near the side of the road and they would have communication. Sometimes it would be strong language, frustration, and motivation. At times we wanted to get this done, go do that. To motivate and get over that hump. And so there would be conversations like that or conversations where he would be working. The stretch would be hard and high, and he would go where he needed to go and visit folks at different places. And as a little boy waiting on him or standing by, didn’t understand until much later, and I’d hear the conversations. People say this, people say that. So again, understand you’ve got to press on. You’ve got to get that loan. Others may have gotten a loan, but you didn’t. What are you going to have to do?
DR: Let me direct your attention more fully to the practice of farming. Like shrimping, because they’re the same category now.
NR: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
DR: Every spring of the year there’s a need to prepare for the season coming up.
NR: Amen. Amen.
DR: What were the process?
NR: The key parts of that, knowing and understanding the farmer’s almanac was clearly in my dad and mom’s mind. They had been through these seasons and they read the signs and they communicate in their prayers on what they want to do and how they’re going to do in the cycles. I didn’t understand. But clearly, my dad would always have his equipment lined up for the season in sharpening the blades on the plows. Especially when he was turning over the property, he would always lift them up and sharpen them. I didn’t know. Because he was going to turn that ground over. And over a period of time, I saw and understood older, wiser on why he would do what he needed to do, and then we would go and acquire money so he would have money set aside for fertilizer.
DR: Where did the funds come from?
NR: Each year, and because we had funds set aside with the market, and monies would need to be put aside, you can’t touch that for these reasons because you need to prepare the property and seeds later on. So with the market, as they grew, they would prepare themselves financially for the funds to do different things at different times. And during the fall month, when we would prepare for the collard greens. Thanksgiving, Christmas, a lot of collard greens. And then we’d package a soup bunch mix that my mom would prepare. And all that’s money now being pulled together.
DR: Where did the capital come from?
NR: From themselves, within themselves.
DR: Was there ever need to reach outside of the immediate savings to be able to get properly capitalized for this preparation?
NR: If you could acquire funds from, again, the farm aids, if you could get funds for damages from crops-
DR: Why are you saying if? It was available for farmers.
NR: Another time with me riding with him and I knew and I could recognize the stress going in for loans, and when he would apply for funds and grants on loans, and the monies would be very slow. But you need that money when you need the money to purchase what you need to purchase. And if you don’t have the money to get what you need, you’re behind eight ball. There’s cases where you can’t purchase what you need. Now you’re behind the eight ball. So those who have monies or maybe the funds allocated by the government.
DR: So there was a source from the Fed that you’re able to get loans for farmers and owners?
NR: Yes.
DR: Was that easily accessible?
NR: No. No.
DR: Let me ask this question. Let’s suppose your family decided they needed 100,000 dollars to get started for the season. Where would they have gone to get that fund?
NR: Well, he had loans that he had with local bank loaning agencies. And again, the interest rate, as I learned much later on, wasn’t the best interest rate. You weren’t getting the best interest. And with regard to the Federal government, you have to document and have the pertinent documentation in place in time to then get the funds. So between some of those, I would see on the outside looking in, the stress.
DR: You think white farmers had to jump the same hurdles?
NR: No.
DR: Why do you say that?
NR: Because we had friends, farmers on the island, and some of them were very quiet. And some were very matter of fact on what they were able to do and were not.
DR: So you’re saying that there were double standards in terms of-
NR: By all means. By all means. The only thing I wished as I got older and if I could do more to help him as he was dealing with some of the stress, but he was a strong man in his life, he wasn’t going to share that. My mother would share that with you. So, yes. In some of the conversations, the big farmers, you had [Acoff? indistinct 00:37:38], Crib and a few of these others who started behind him. Especially Crib who started as a – he worked on the airport doing whatever oddball job. But he got the land and the money to afford his own farm.
DR: Did you all have a personal relationship with Crib?
NR: Oh, yes.
DR: Decent person?
NR: Decent. Decent for the matter of fact, if you could share some knowledge. But again, there was knowledge that you didn’t know you even had that you could get. You just deal with what you can and do what you can to keep things moving. Again, for me, watching, as I understood later on, the stress.
DR: Did there ever come a time when the financial resources improved opportunity loosen up for your father?
NR: I could say that overtime, much later, by the time I left home, going to college, ’69 through ’74 I was in school, but I would come home. And so I was out of touch, but things were I think a little bit easier versus – but prior to the time I left high school, that was a different time, especially as a young man, young people. The times were pretty tough.
DR: Did you ever become aware of a lawsuit against the Department of Rural Development?
NR: No.
DR: On the behalf of black farmers?
NR: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, when I was up in DC through the Fields family, they would apprise me of different lawsuits and whatever else was going on in DC, and I would house them and help them best I can and push the envelope up in that neck of the woods as best I could then.
DR: You all were never able to benefit from some of those losses of it?
NR: No. No. At that time – and that’s a whole other story. Time and difficulty. And my brother stepped in when my dad passed. We lost a lot of money there. And he stepped in as the young man trying to step into that farm. And overtime as I look at you, know that I thought at one point it was going to kill him. It was too much. The stress, stepping in as a young man trying to pick up and make things happen, the politics of things. It was tough.
DR: Let me ask you this question, Mr. Roper. Your parents emphasized the importance of an education to you all, is that correct?
NR: Yes.
DR: Was that also accompanied with the idea and feeling that an education would make life better for you?
NR: See, they would support that and push that.
DR: And you expected that?
NR: Yes. But they also empowered us to trust in the Lord and work with all your might to do your very best. You can do all you can education-wise.
DR: Then let me ask this question. Your life experience and all the teaching and influence from your parents, did education make life easier for you or more aware of how to navigate?
NR: More aware in making better choices. And then again, always look to the high road and not look to the low. Look to the high road.
DR: Positive mental attitude?
NR: Yes.
DR: Anything that we have not covered that you would like to add?
NR: Well, I think that the big thing that was an eye stopper for me was all that we talked about, but then remembering and it stuck with me through all my career, both in the Military and in my role as I guess a leader, to be aware and recognizing your power, not as a hammer, but to make decisions, because it impacts others. When you have a mission, you’ve got a mission, but again, you want to do your utmost to care for the people. And so that’s always been a plus for me. And later in life, it normally has come around sometimes five times on why you did what you did. I’m not saying everything was a perfection, but clearly the benefits for me and others I’ve seen as I look back, and then benefiting from it now as a retired individual, both from the Army and then from the government, as seeing, okay. We could have done better, but you did all right because people are prospering and they communicate what we learned and taught each other to move forward. That’s been a big plus for me.
DR: Let me revisit a question with you. Your long-time relationship with Mr. Grant allow you to be aware of what his environment was, or some of what his environment was, and still familiar with what you experienced at Gresham Meggett, do you think the schools were a little bit equal?
NR: No. No. No. No. He dealt with a lot, but because he had the mind and the ability and the information was there, he could sort it. So that’s pretty strong. I don’t know sometimes. Sometimes I look back. And you understand. I don’t know where I was at, farm boy, how structured – I pray I would have, but I don’t know. So I look back now in hindsight. Okay, Lord. You know. But I’m grateful. I’m very grateful.
DR: So I’m hearing you are implying or in fact saying that the difficult times and the frustration, it was your religious belief from your parents that helped you through it?
NR: Yeah. I mean, seeing them through tough times, didn’t know. Yeah, I got up in the morning, I did what I needed to do. Life’s nice. Okay. I make it do. I mean, you didn’t realize what you didn’t have. You had everything you needed. Life’s nice. Which is a dream out there for you. There’s a vision out there.
DR: Tell me about your grandmother again.
NR: Oh, Lord. Iron will, love, determination, but it shows me also-
DR: And which one is this that you’re talking about?
NR: This is Feedie.
DR: Okay.
NR: I didn’t grow up with my mother’s mother. She passed away long before. She died early on. Early in the 1900’s. Because my mother was born in 1912. Her mother died maybe ten years later. So she knew her mother, but I never knew her. But Feedie was a dynamic force, well known-
DR: And how old was she when she passed?
NR: Feedie?
DR: Yes.
NR: She was 102 I think.
DR: What did she do? What was the kind of work she did?
NR: She was a farmer. She was a farm woman and she loved taking care of people. She fed anybody that she – if you’re hungry, she was going to make sure you were fed. Hence, they had the nickname Feedie.
DR: Now, I understand that she was a midwife.
NR: Midwife.
DR: And delivered many children on this island.
NR: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But see, she picked up her job – my mom was a midwife before.
DR: Okay. All right.
NR: And fed some of that information to her as to what she could do-
DR: That was on the job training that your grandmother picked up from your mother?
NR: Oh, yeah. My mother was a midwife, because she lived in the city for a while.
DR: Okay.
NR: And she started working with the doctors in Charleston and then with her background knowledge of seeing her loss in her family.
DR: So I always had the impression that I didn’t know your mother was a midwife, but I knew that your grandmother had been – because of the close relationship.
NR: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
DR: And she was 102.
NR: Yes.
DR: Have any ideas how many babies she delivered?
NR: I would imagine on the island at that time, they say thousands, I wouldn’t doubt it. When you talk to different people. Before I left the island, many people would acknowledge who I was, and they would shift back to Feedie. And I would go with my mother when she would go deliver children on the island as a little boy. But once she had the farm, she had to give that up.
DR: So it was not unusual for you to hear among other people the greetings or, “That’s Feedie’s grandboy.”
NR: Well, yeah. Yeah.
DR: Or that’s Ned Boy.
NR: Yes. Yes. Yes.
DR: Coming up.
NR: Yes. Yes.
DR: So anything else that you might want to conclude here with us?
NR: No, I think the one thing that was very dynamic and I was about to say that, that struck with me and stayed with me was some of the points you covered, but when we left for that last year, the transition happened. New teachers, white teachers coming in.
DR: That was in ’69?
NR: ’69. And I got to see and meet some of the teachers coming in. Apprehension. They had heard stories. As now, I remember and looked in their face, and I was wide open – wide eyed open. And I talked with my mother. And she once said, “You will be disciplined. You will be given respect.” However, comma, I would go back and talk and I could see the fear in their face coming here. The younger ones saw that we had one teacher, and I’ll share this one bit. This is one document and one episode of a problem we had in the classroom, and it could have gotten really ugly. The students were disruptive and they were frustrated, and she didn’t know how to control the class. But this is after the class we got it settled up, and I was the president, then we talked in the classroom to settle this thing down, because we were here for a purpose. To educate and leave, and get out of here. We were going to graduate. We were going to have to get out of here. We didn’t need the disruption. We needed to get out of here. She just didn’t know how to control the student. Not that she was disruptive.
DR: So the frustration of the students was demonstrated by their behavior.
NR: Yes.
DR: The teacher, who was fearful of them in the beginning-
NR: In the beginning.
DR: …also lacked the skills as to how to deal with the culture?
NR: Yeah. Exactly. I don’t know how much preparation they had. Some of the younger teachers, but I wasn’t in their classes. We were seniors coming through different classes. But the one point I remembered in my graduation, and I kept this in my files, because it could have been an ugly situation, but we kept it calm, and one we needed to get out of there. And that was my fault, guys. We could disrupt this thing all we want. We need to get this class. She’s apparently very afraid of us. I know she’s stressed. This is her job. She was forced to come here. We were forced to be here too. We’ve got to get out. But this is one of her-
DR: Go ahead. Read it. Read it.
NR: Yeah. Yeah. This is one of the gifts she gave and this was at graduation, May 21, 1969 to Ned Roper. “Your cooperation and dependability have been a pleasure to observe. You have shown to all your classmates a fine example of a young manhood. Best wishes in all that you do in the future. God bless you.” And it’s signed D. Coleman, social studies teacher, 1969. So I’ve always kept that. And I remember that moment. The only one keep our heads, everyone is stressed. She didn’t say anything outlandish, but she didn’t know how to control the class and communicate on their hard questions. Why? Why you? Why did they choose our class? Why this year? And she was stressed, I’m sure, alone being told you were coming to this school. So it was interesting.
DR: So Ned, what I’m gathering from what you’re saying is that there may not have been proper preparation by the system of the teachers that were given this new responsibility that they aren’t familiar with?
NR: There’s no doubt in my mind from watching outside looking in. And she is one of one other that we had teaching classes that we needed to graduate the curriculum. I think she was one of them, and math. We had black teachers teaching. So it was good, but we had to take that class. And so clearly-
DR: How many white teachers were here your last year?
NR: I can look in the yearbook.
DR: Approximately, you think.
NR: About maybe five or so. Something like that. If that.
DR: Were you well adjusted?
NR: No, I don’t think so.
DR: Male or females?
NR: Males and females. Males and females. We had some younger men that may have had some involvement in teaching, where she was a middle aged teacher.
DR: I’m listening to you and the thought that comes to my mind is that the school system did not prepare the teachers adequately for that. They just dumped them into that environment?
NR: I suspect from watching her dynamics with the students, and I’m not a teacher. I’m just one of the students. We’re coming to class, books. And you know how things can get.
DR: You observed your classmate, her and also how you feel and think. Go ahead.
NR: So you would see one question leads to another. How do you nip it in the bud and keep things moving? And if you allow yourself to get pulled into something that’s going to go not good, or do you maintain the control, or if you try to explain something that you can’t explain, that’s why – you’ve got to stick to the lesson. The best I can.
DR: You have children now that have gone through the integrated school system.
NR: Yes.
DR: You hear them talk about some of the same things? In terms of teacher’s preparation?
NR: Well, yes. Teachers preparation. You could see some who were prepared and some were not. And then of course it stands out. If you recognize the teacher’s not prepared or fearful, then they feed on it. Some, not all students. But some do.
DR: You think that’s related to some of the black males that are usually expelled from schools now?
NR: It could be. It could be. Or a child who’s dealing with stuff at home. Who knows? Tough situation, how they react, what have they been taught. Stress. You know, that’s all I can say.
DR: I think that the corporation – I mean, I’ll just pose the question. Would you venture to say that the parent supported the teachers at Gresham Meggett, created and fostered an environment where the students were more willing to learn without being disruptive?
NR: I think that was the case. I think most of the times, having heard in discussion at the parent teachers organization, parents were more active I think, or definitely active. Everyone had the same funds as to what they brought to the table. But the desire was there to listen and learn.
DR: What do you mean? Everyone had the same? You’re talking about economic status?
NR: Economic station.
DR: Which means most of students here were from working class?
NR: Working class. Working class.
DR: So there was no class distinction-
NR: No class distinction. You weren’t wearing [indistinct 00:54:14]. You wore what you had. You kept clean. That’s about it. Now there’s so many different distinctions in sneakers that you wear and your clothes and all that. And there isn’t – and some of the schools wear the uniforms. I mean, that supposedly has diminished some of the concerns and stresses. Many to dynamics.
DR: Are you aware that Gresham Meggett has been placed on the historical registry?
NR: Yes.
DR: What would you like to see happen here?
NR: I love the fact that they’re gainfully employing the building, educating students. Clearly that’s a part of its history. I love that this ground has been put in a place where people appreciate it. I love the fact that it’s been a part of where others can come and see and then teach and talk about, again, when you look at the Charleston area, and I have many friends from the Charleston area, many friends I went to school with, [indistinct 00:55:26] a few other places. We share and talk notes now. Some moved back, some have not. But we communicate. Their structure is gone, so they still try to maintain, again, an understanding of what they feel from what they’ve garnered and then their question is mine now. And that gets back to the point. How do we share for those students? You see, because seeing you, when I see you, I see me, family me. And so for me, I’m proud and I understand from whence I came. From what I see others here, from whence I came. And when you put it with the school from whence I came. How do we relay that? I don’t know how you do that. Back then, I didn’t know that, but I made it. And now how do you encourage and empower?
DR: Do you ever feel that there’s a need for vocational education?
NR: Yes.
DR: More so than we have now?
NR: I think so, because everyone cannot have the same goodness of knowledge and understanding. But a physical presence and an understanding of work, and the need, and how to gainfully employ yourself, that’s a question.
DR: How would you compare the need for that kind of education given how expensive it is now to go to college?
NR: More needed now. It’s needed. It’s necessary. I saw some of this when I was in Germany, in West Germany. Then West Germany. They had a vocational track in their schools where those children who wanted to more get involved in techniques and whatever, it was worth-
DR: You think Gresham Meggett can once again serve that purpose?
NR: I think so. They have the land. I mean, how much space do you need to teach?
DR: What were some of the vocational classes that were offered when you were here? You remember?
NR: You had horticulture. And you have brick masonry. And my family still uses that very strongly now. Alan is very much strong. He’s retiring now, but he can’t even find anyone knowledgeable enough to pass that on. So.
DR: How about welding?
NR: Welding? I can’t remember how much – I think they tried that at one of the schools, but again, that’s another area. But again, technology, computers. The technology is here.
DR: Roper, we thank you for your time and patience and sharing very rich history of your past experience in your family.
NR: We thank you. I’m glad you were here before me and now.
DR: Oh, man.
NR: God bless you, man.
DR: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Struggle.
NR: Indeed.
DR: Thank you much. Yeah.
NR: All right. So if I wanted to, again-
DR: What I need to send you, when we have completed the editing and whatever else needed to be done, the final production, you’ll get a copy of that.
NR: Okay. Beautiful.
DR: Okay? And it would be a video copy, right?
TG: Hm-hmm [affirmative]. And we’ll do a transcription of the audio.
