Isaac Moore Jr. Interview
This interview was conducted on behalf of Charleston County as part of the project: Stories from Historic African American Communities: A Journey to Equal Education, W. Gresham Meggett High School, James Island, SC. Charleston County was awarded a grant from the Department of Interior and National Park Service (NPS) in 2018 to conduct this oral history project aims to provide insight into the lives of African American students during desegregation. The project is structured by the NPS research framework: Civil Rights in America: A Framework for Identifying Significant Sites (2002, rev. 2008).
This interview was conducted on February 23, 2019 at W. Gresham Meggett School (Septima P. Clark Academy), James Island, Charleston County, South Carolina. David Richardson was the interviewer; Terri Gillett was the technical assistant.
David Richardson: My name is David Richardson. And I am sitting here with Mr-
Isaac Moore: Isaac Moore Junior.
DR: And where do you live now, Mr. Moore?
IM: Currently, I live in North Charleston, 4614 Drifters Way in North Charleston.
DR: And what is your date of birth?
IM: August 2, 1950.
DR: Okay. And where were you born?
IM: James Island, Charleston, South Carolina.
DR: And who were your parents?
IM: Parents was Mr. and Mrs. Isaac Moore Senior and Mary Moore.
DR: Where were they from?
IM: As far as I know they’re from Charleston also.
DR: What part of Charleston?
IM: James Island.
DR: Both parents were?
IM: Both parents.
DR: Any particular part of James Island?
IM: Bee Field. We called it B Field, which is an area that’s right off of Folly Road I guess about a quarter mile in length where a lot of people live at on James Island.
DR: Tell me what was the occupation of Isaac Moore Senior.
IM: Isaac Moore, he worked at a fertilizer plant called [indistinct 00:01:11] Fertilizer Mill in North Charleston until he retired after 41 years.
DR: Was that the plant that used to process fish into fertilizer?
IM: Yes. Yes. Yes. That was the plant. He worked there. He was a driver, then he worked some in the warehouse.
DR: Okay. And what did your mother do?
IM: My mother mostly was a homemaker working on the green, doing housework and things like that.
DR: Do you have any siblings?
IM: Yes. I have three.
DR: Three siblings? Can you share with us their names?
IM: The names are Mary Alice Filton, her married name, Janice Elaine Howard, and Sheila Milliner.
DR: Are they still residents of Charleston?
IM: Yes. They come back every now and then.
DR: So what other locations are they currently-
IM: The two younger sisters, Sheila and Janice, live in Atlanta, Georgia. And my eldest sister, she lives in Columbus, Ohio.
DR: Did your family – back to redirecting attention to your parents, did they emphasize in your house the value of education?
IM: Oh, yes, yes, yes. Very much so. Matter of fact, we did a lot of reading in our house and things like that.
DR: Who was the main push or encourager among your parents?
IM: Mostly my mother. My mother was very active in things that were going on. Matter of fact, I remember one time she even took us to a march downtown. She was very active in things like that.
DR: So where did you go to high school?
IM: High school, I was at W. Gresham Meggett in high school on the island. James Island.
DR: And also the elementary school here?
IM: Elementary school was at Kings – I guess we call it Kings Highway. A long time ago.
DR: Off of Fort Charleston.
IM: On Fort Charleston Road.
DR: Which school was Three Trees?
IM: Three Trees was one of the schools on the island. I’m not familiar with Three Trees that much. I’ve read about it, but I’m not familiar with Three Trees.
DR: So tell me where Kings Highway Elementary School was.
IM: Where was it located?
DR: Yes.
IM: Located right down the road from – actually down here. If you just go past the light, go about three miles from here.
DR: Is it beyond St. James?
IM: Yes. Beyond St. James Presbyterian Church. About a quarter mile past there on the left-hand side.
DR: So who was the principal there?
IM: Principal, I don’t remember who the principal was.
DR: Perhaps you remember some of your teachers?
IM: Yes. I remember one specific, Mrs. Grant.
DR: Mrs. Grant.
IM: Yes.
DR: Was she the Grant who was also from the island?
IM: Yes.
DR: And do you know where Ms. Grant lived?
IM: No. To tell you the truth, I didn’t. I attended in my early years, up until basically seventh grade. Back then we didn’t focus too much on teachers or remember who the teachers were. Most of the teachers I remember was my high school teachers.
DR: Was King Highway School a modern school or was it an old school?
IM: For us, I would say it probably was a modern school. It was in good shape.
DR: So when you attended that, it was a segregated school?
IM: No.
DR: No?
IM: No.
DR: And this was in elementary school?
IM: Elementary school.
DR: But you graduated from Gresham Meggett?
IM: Yes.
DR: What year was that?
IM: I graduated in ’68 from W. Gresham Meggett.
DR: They were still segregated?
IM: Still segregated. Okay. Segregated, yeah. It was only one race at Kings Highway and W. Gresham Meggett and there was African American, black race. There were no other nationality or race that attended when I was there in high school, elementary or high school.
DR: Okay. And do you remember the name of Louie – it’s one of the teachers. I was wondering whether you remember the name. I’ve forgotten what his last name was now. So what year did you come to Gresham Meggett?
IM: I came to Gresham in my eighth grade. That would have been eight, nine, ten, 11, 12. I graduated in ’68. That would have been ’64.
DR: So ’64. So you were also a classmate of Elaine Chavis?
IM: Elaine Chavis. What’s her maiden-
DR: Well, that is her maiden. She’s Richardson now.
IM: She’s a Richardson now?
DR: Yeah. From Sol Legare.
IM: Elaine Chavis. No, I don’t remember her of being one of our classmates. No.
DR: Okay. So you came to Gresham Meggett in ’64.
IM: Right.
DR: In what grade?
IM: That would have been eighth grade.
DR: And who were some of your teachers then?
IM: I said my teacher was Mrs. English, Mrs. James, Mr. Breland, Mr. McCray. That’s all that can come back to me right now. Mr. Douglas.
DR: Okay. Mr. Douglas was then what? The football coach?
IM: I think he did football. And Mr. Walter, no, was the football coach. I don’t remember exactly what Mr. Douglas taught. It could have been one of the coaches.
DR: Who was the principal there?
IM: Mr. Evans.
DR: Okay. All right.
IM: Mr. Evans. I remember him.
DR: Yeah. Okay. What was the climate at Gresham Meggett when you attended?
IM: The climate was good. Everyone knew everyone. Everyone got along well with everyone. I don’t think we had too many problems at all at the school.
DR: Do you believe the parents and the teachers had a close supportive relationship?
IM: Oh, yes. Yes. Definitely. I think they were very, very close. Whenever a student got in trouble, you could almost guarantee that the teacher would call the parent and let the parent know. Today they send notes and everything, but it was on hand back then most of the time.
DR: And the parents would respond?
IM: Oh, the parents would respond positively, and if you want to say negatively for the child. The child would be punished for disobeying or being disobedient in class.
DR: I’m going to ask you a question and I want to see what your reaction is going to be. You grew up in – I heard you describing just now what Bee Field community was like.
IM: Right.
DR: I assume that you knew most all of the families, everybody that lived there?
IM: Yes.
DR: So the communities were then sort of a small tight knitted community?
IM: Yes. Very tight.
DR: The term I want to ask you is everybody knew who the “teef” was.
IM: The “teef? “
DR: Yeah. You know what that means?
IM: Well, as far as I know, we didn’t have too many “teefs”, if you would call it that, back in those days.
DR: But you know what that means?
IM: Yes, I know what it means. Someone who stole from someone else.
DR: But when you said everybody knew who it was, meaning there was no doubt in the community who-
IM: Oh, yes. If someone was identified as a thief, there wasn’t any doubt who that person was.
DR: Everybody knew who that person was. Okay.
IM: Yes. Because the community was so small.
Thus, relatively the immunity in kids, tadalafil canada online especially in Infants is lesser than in adults. Kamagra makes ideal choice to face the condition and enjoy order cialis from india the confident copulation with your love partner. Also professional cialis for patient once the patient understands the problem he has which most common among men and can be witnessed in men of any age group now days. This quality of the organ denotes that the medicine has done the work of its domain. generic india viagraDR: Right. Right. Right. Tell me what the climate at Gresham Meggett was in terms of teacher-student relationship.
IM: Oh, it was basically a one-on-one type thing with students. The classes weren’t very large. I guess they would average probably no more than about 25. So the teachers had time to get to know the student, and the student know the teacher. And whenever a student would get out of hand, the teacher would definitely respond in one form or another.
DR: So what would be those responses or choices?
IM: Some of the choices were – back then it was corporal punishment we call spanking. It was allowed very much back then, so it wasn’t a problem. It wasn’t anything to get spanked by the teacher.
DR: Was the principal at the time you were here who was Mr-
IM: Evans.
DR: …Evans. Was he known to administer corporal punishment?
IM: To my knowledge, yes.
DR: Did you ever suffer from that?
IM: No. No. No. According to my past history and everyone who knew me, I didn’t get in trouble.
DR: You didn’t get in trouble?
IM: Didn’t get in trouble.
DR: Mary would know about that.
IM: Yes. Yes.
DR: Tell me, do you feel that the teachers were competent to prepare you for life after you get out of school?
IM: Yes. Yes.
DR: What do you base that on?
IM: Based on who I am now, basically. Based on my knowledge that I gained after school, where I went with my knowledge and what I did, and how I perform now.
DR: So at ’69 is when you left Gresham Meggett?
IM: ’68.
DR: ’68. Okay. ’69 was the year that they closed it.
IM: Yes.
DR: What did you do after you left in ’68?
IM: I went in the Military. I went in the Military Air Force.
DR: Okay. And how long did you stay there?
IM: 22 years.
DR: I see. And you were triggered some of your preparation to sustain yourself there to Gresham Meggett?
IM: Right. My behavior and my ability to adjust the discipline. It was a lot to Gresham Meggett and it was a lot to just the neighborhood, the community that made sure that we, as the children of the community, did well and wasn’t disobedient and got in trouble.
DR: So you came along at a time where anybody in that neighborhood or an adult could have disciplined you if you had done something?
IM: Right. Anybody. And then again, as you might know, of others who might know, when you got home, the word got home and you got another punishment.
DR: Most of the people they had no telephone. How did-
IM: It was a word of mouth type thing. People called know someone and they’d call someone, and they’d see somebody in the street, and before you know it, it got around.
DR: It got around, huh?
IM: The grapevine.
DR: I hear that. So there was no disciplinary problem in the neighborhood or the school because of the close relationship that you had with the neighbors and your parents?
IM: Right.
DR: And then the teachers benefited from that?
IM: Right. They did.
DR: Do you recall many incidents where a student might have attempted to disrupt the classes?
IM: I don’t think too many students during that time dared to disrupt any teacher while they were teaching or made a lot of noise or was disruptive in the class. I didn’t see hardly any of that. The teachers were strict. They had their particular rules for their classroom, and you disobeyed the rules, they would take action.
DR: So there was also a close relationship and respect for the teachers then?
IM: Yes. Yes.
DR: And you think the teachers gave you all the best service that they could have?
IM: Yes.
DR: Now, you said you went to the Air Force?
IM: Yes, I did.
DR: And how long did you remain in the Air Force?
IM: 22 years.
DR: What did that opportunity did that provide you? Or a job?
IM: Well, I was able to further my education after I got out based on what I learned in high school and everything. I had my high school diploma. I was successful in getting that when I left. So I started college courses in the Military. I went onto – got my degree after a couple of years. I went and enlisted, then after I got my degree applied for the officer commissioner program, got commissioned as an officer.
DR: So when you came out, what position-
IM: I retired as a captain.
DR: As a captain. I see.
IM: Yes.
DR: Now, you said that it provided you an opportunity to pursue your education.
IM: Yes.
DR: What do you mean by that?
IM: Well, I had I guess that eagerness you would call it to want to achieve more than – our teachers encouraged us, to coin a phrase, to be more than you can be or as one of the Military say it. So we were always encouraged to do more. Not less. We were never discouraged saying that we couldn’t do anything or we couldn’t be anybody. I don’t ever remember any teacher ever saying that we would be not successful.
DR: So even though you attended segregated schools, it did not affect your self-esteem or your belief in your own ability?
IM: No. It didn’t.
DR: What do you attribute that to? Such as your own belief?
IM: Just the belief that the teachers had that they can do anything also. And again, they never discouraged us from doing whatever we might decide we wanted to do. If we wanted to go to the Military, they didn’t discourage us, or we wanted to, say, we wanted to be a doctor or anything else. They never discouraged us from that, but encourage us and give us advice on what we needed to do. Matter of fact, in taking the SAT and other things early than we needed to. They encouraged us to do that.
DR: What did you study when you pursued your college experience?
IM: I studied mostly political science. I went into the politics, political area. I studied politics. A lot of history courses.
DR: So most of that would be a BS.
IM: I have a BA in political science. Then later on when I decided to go into the ministry, I attained a master’s degree in divinity and pastoral counseling.
DR: So you now hold how many degrees?
IM: Two degrees. Two full degrees with a minor in pastoral care and counseling.
DR: That’s not a doctorate degree?
IM: No. No. I don’t have a doctorate.
DR: I see. So now do you have a church?
IM: Yes.
DR: And where is that church?
IM: Church is in what we call Johns Island Red Top area.
DR: Okay. And what denomination is that?
IM: Presbyterian.
DR: Very good. Okay. So you first started school at Kings Highway?
IM: Kings Highway.
DR: You’re aware of the fact that St. James Presbyterian Church also had a school?
IM: Yes.
DR: There were a lot of students who eventually came out of Gresham Meggett at the early years started at St. James.
IM: Yes.
DR: Yes. Okay. Anything else that you’d like to add that we have not covered?
IM: No. I think, again, we were highly encouraged at Meggett to be the best that we can be. And I think the teachers encouraged us that. And again, there was a good relationship between the students and the teachers.
DR: During the period that you came along, where were civil rights issues?
IM: Oh, they were in the forefront. They were always there for us to see that there were problems in the system, there were problems in the United States with fair treatment. There’s always been a problem there. On James Island, we didn’t see that a lot, because of the segregation. We were mostly with our own race more than anything else until schools were desegregated around ’69.
DR: Do you think one of the contributing factors about the absence of some of those issues on James Island goes back to the fact that so many of the families are related here?
IM: Yes and no. I think even that a lot of them weren’t related, we still had the same values. The values were basically the same. The community raising the child values were the same, whether related or not. It didn’t make a difference whether you were related to somebody. Discipline was accorded to any child, whether they were your relative or not.
DR: Let me ask you a side question. How many churches were there on James Island at the time? African American churches.
IM: I would say probably about five or six that I can think of, predominantly big churches, well known churches.
DR: Do you remember how many there were originally during the time you were probably in elementary school?
IM: Probably three main churches that I know of.
DR: Do you remember what they are?
IM: Yes. First Baptist Church, St. James and Payne RMUE.
DR: And there was one more.
IM: Bethel on-
DR: Yes. So there was about four.
IM: …Central Park. Yes.
DR: Now, do you know what the commonality among those four different denominations were?
IM: No.
DR: Okay. Were you aware that each one of those churches had cross family members?
IM: Yes. I was aware of that. Yes. Family members from all the churches were attending, you might see a mother at one church and a father at another church. That’s how, in my family, were. My father attended First Baptist, but my mother’s family history from three generational were Presbyterian. So my mother attended Presbyterian. So we would go to my mother’s church in the morning, and then in the evening time we would go with my father.
DR: Thank you. That’s what I was trying to pull up. Even though there was four different churches, everybody’s family was in that four churches.
IM: Yes.
DR: It had links.
IM: Yes. Sometimes doing that their lifetime. Yes.
DR: And well, each of them during the summer months used to have anniversaries.
IM: Anniversaries, summer programs.
DR: Either there might be a choir or it may be the usher boy.
IM: Right.
DR: And they would all-
IM: Come together.
DR: …visit each others’ churches.
IM: Yes.
DR: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mr. Moore, it’s a pleasure.
IM: Thank you.
DR: And I think some of the information that we both knew that you shared with us. Okay?
IM: All right.
DR: Yeah. I think-
