This interview was conducted on behalf of Charleston County as part of the project: Stories from Historic African American Communities: A Journey to Equal Education, W. Gresham Meggett High School, James Island, SC.  Charleston County was awarded a grant from the Department of Interior and National Park Service (NPS) in 2018 to conduct this oral history project aims to provide insight into the lives of African American students during desegregation.  The project is structured by the NPS research framework: Civil Rights in America: A Framework for Identifying Significant Sites (2002, rev. 2008). 

This interview was conducted on March 18, 2019 at St. James Presbyterian Church, James Island, Charleston County, South Carolina.  Mary Beth Reed (New South Associates) is the interviewer; Jenna Tran (New South Associates) was the technical assistant.

Mary Beth Reed:        . . . Mary Beth Reed with New South Associates.  I’m interviewing Diane Hamilton.  It’s March 18th.  I’m doing the St. Patrick’s Day thing.

Diane Hamilton:          Yes.

MBR:  2019.  And we’re going to be talking about her time teaching at W. Gresham Meggett High School.  And I—Again, thanks for coming.

DH:     You’re welcome.

MBR:  And being willing to do this.  This is a project that is funded by the National Park Service, and, as part of their looks at the Civil Rights era.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  And people from Charleston County went after a grant to get the funding to do this.  And with of lot of Ms. Johnson’s support they’re—

DH:     Yeah, oh yes.

MBR:  And to look at Meggett.  Meggett is a historically significant school.  It just went on the National Register, so . . .

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  The timing was good and we are just real pleased at all the people that want to participate, both students, teachers.  No principals yet.  But we’ll see, as we move forward.  I’m going to show you an interview release form which says that the words here would be used.  And you can, we can do this afterwards—

DH:     Okay.

MBR:  . . . if that’s okay.  But I have it started.  So, we’ll go from there.  So, I need to learn a little bit about you, Diane, if you would.  Where did you grow up?  And how did you end up at Meggett?  Can you kind of talk—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  . . . about how you got there?

DH:     Okay.  I was born in Charleston, West Ashley.  As a matter of fact, I still live on the same spot that I grew up on in a house, not the same house.  I tore the old house down and built a new house on that spot.  So, I was born in Charleston.  I was familiar with James Island because my father was the minister of Bethel AME Church on Central Park Road.  So, as a child, I would come over—Not every Sunday.  But I visited kind of regular with—I was a daddy’s girl.  So, I would come over and visit with him.  My mom stayed at the home church and, of course, mostly I stayed at the home church, as well. 

I graduated from South Carolina State College, as it was known then.  Our graduation was May 15th.  And I had come home about a week or two earlier and had spoken with my high school English teacher, who was really my mentor.  And she was the one who guided me through the process to apply for college, to get work aid scholarship and all of that, to actually attend college.  I attribute all that to Mrs. Ruth Brown. 

MBR:  At what high school?

DH:     At Wallace High School. 

MBR:  Okay

DH:     Yes.  Which was a competitor of Gresham Meggett.  They were all part of that revitalization—That’s not the proper word.

MBR:  Is it equalization?

DH:     Equalization Act.  Came out of that respect.  And I’d spoken with her.  And she told me who to contact with Charleston County School District.  And she also told me, “Now listen, she is going to sound kind of gruff and what have you.  But don’t you let that bother you.  Simply state” and she told me A, B, C, D, whatever “State so and so.”  I said, “Yes, ma’am.”  I followed her instructions.  And I did that.  I went on back to college.  And then I received a telephone call that I had an interview with W. Gresham Meggett on the 16th with Mr. Al Evans.  And I also had an interview that Wednesday with Mr. Linton for the school in Mount Pleasant.  I can’t think of the name right this minute, but the school—

MBR:  Laing.

DH:     Laing High School in Mount Pleasant.  And, so, I came here.  I actually rode the public bus from West Ashley to James Island.  And then got off on Folly Road and walked to the school for my interview.  And Mr. Evans wanted me to go directly to the superintendent’s office, I don’t recall the name of the superintendent at that time, to sign the papers.  But I told him, “Let me think about it.”  But I knew right then I was going to accept the position.  But I had already committed to a second interview.  So, I wanted to do the second interview, as well.  And one of my college classmates borrowed a car, because I was not driving at that time.  He borrowed a car.  We were just friends, but he borrowed a car and took me to Mount Pleasant for that interview. 

And Mr. Linton also wanted to take me to the superintendent’s office over there to be hired.  And I said, you know, “Give me a little time.”  I came home.  Then I wrote him a nice thank you note thanking him for the opportunity and all.  But my mother, who was ailing at the time—I told him I thought it’d be best if I worked closer to home, especially since I did not have an automobile.  And, so, I didn’t want to have to travel from Mount Pleasant—And I didn’t know how I was going to arrange that, anyhow.  And, so, I accepted the Gresham Meggett position. 

And, later that week, after signing the papers, Mr. Evans called and said, “Ms. Hamilton, what are you doing for the summer?”  And I said, “Well, I’m just going to be looking for, you know, a job until fall when school opens.”  And he said, “Would you like to teach summer school?”  I said, “Yes, sir.”  So, I was hired to teach summer school that June.  And, so, I started that June.  Again, I rode the bus from West Ashley to James.  I was younger then.

MBR:  How old were you?

DH:     I was 20.  I had not reached my 21st birthday yet, because I’m a December baby.  Oh, great month, great month.

MBR:  I am, too.  It is a great month, yes. 

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  But I’m in the same boat.

DH:     Yeah.  And, see, if I had been born during this time, see, I would have been held back, you know, until the following year because of the late birthday.  But then they allowed me to start at 5, age 5.  But anyway, I went to the meeting for the summer school.  And I saw these people in the room and they were very gracious to me and what not.  And at the end of the session, there was one lady who looked quite familiar.  And I looked at her and at the end of it I said, “I know you.”  Of course, she didn’t know me.  I said, “I know you.  You used to live on my street.”  That was Mrs. James.  She was an adult and teacher.  I was a teenager, so, of course, she wouldn’t know me.  And I would only see this lady get into her white car, drive away, come back, park the white car.  And she was so busy and what have you.  And it turned out that her mother was my dorm mother for my last three years of college.  Didn’t know that.

MBR:  Wow.

DH:     But we—You know.  But anyway, she now lived on the Peninsula.  And so, she said, “Well, Diane, you know, you could ride with me.”  A lot of people carpooled in those days.  She said, “You could ride with me.  If you can get to South Windermere, I’ll pick you up on my way from city.  And then I’ll take you back home in the afternoon.”  And, so, that was my transportation.  And, so, we went on.  And then, when fall came, we kept the same arrangement.  And I started taking driving lessons.  And November 12th I got my first car and I started driving myself.

MBR:  Fabulous.  That’s fabulous.  So—

DH:     And Mrs. James and I have been friends ever since.  And we worked together those three years.  And then they closed W. Gresham Meggett.  And I don’t know who made the decision, but they selected three teachers from Gresham Meggett to go to the new Fort Johnson.  And it was Mrs. James, who already had a Masters, which was very rare in those days.  She had a Masters in English.  And Mr. McCray, who had a Masters in Mathematics.  And I was selected for Social Studies.  I only had a B.A.  I don’t know how I got in that group.  But the three of us went to Fort Johnson.

MBR:  Oh, my gosh. 

DH:     And we have been friends ever since.  All right. 

MBR:  Do you remember what you got paid when you first started at W. Gresham Meggett?

DH:     I don’t remember the—Was it $3,000 a year?  Some figure.  But I do remember we were only paid once per month and for nine months.  So, but I remember thinking, “Now, during the summer, I’m going to have to have something to bridge me across those months.”  And, so, I would do little things in the summer.  But that doesn’t last very long.  Because then they decided they would divide our paychecks.  Still the same amount of money, but they would divide it in 12 sessions.  So, they we would receive a check every month.  But at first—And then, later on, they went to being paid every two weeks.  Because then you were only paid once a month.  So, you had the budget which was—I mean, you—That’s what was expected of you, so that’s what you did.  So, you were paid once a month.  And you took care of your expenses and what have you.

MBR:  How were you prepared for becoming a teacher at W. Gresham Meggett?

DH:     Oh, I was well prepared.  Oh yes.  I was well prepared.  When I graduated—Well, Mrs. Brown in high school—I was in the college prep classes and what not.  So, when I was getting ready to select my college, I wanted to go to the closest college, but the toughest college in the state.  I didn’t want to go to just any school.  And, so, at that time, South Carolina State was the top school in this state.  And it was the closest.  Because, when I graduate in 62, I could not attend the College of Charleston.  If that was available, I know I would have gone to the College of Charleston.  But it was really the best thing for me to actually be able to go away from home and be submersed in that environment and what not.  So, that was perfect for me. 

And, so, that’s how I ended up at South Carolina State.  And, of course, I was not one to want to select—Well, I followed the—They had an outline of what courses you were to take and when you were going to take them.  I followed that catalog step by step.  I never moved anything around or tried to avoid this teacher, teacher A or teacher B, whoever.  Because I knew that South Carolina State had a reputation.  If you did not have all of your requirements, they would pull you out of the line, even if it was the week before graduation, or the week of graduation.  So, I was not going to let them—I was not going to get messed up.  Besides, I didn’t mind—I preferred having a hard teacher, or hard teachers as they call it.  And, so, I was prepared.  And, of course, I did my student teaching in Gaffney, South Carolina for six weeks.  And in those days what would happen is you actually left the campus and you were sent to live in a community.  So, I went to Gaffney, South Carolina.  We boarded—There were two of us student teachers and a newly hired secretary for the school.  And we boarded with this lady, whose daughters were at college.  So, she—Her husband was military and, so, that’s how she earned extra money and whatnot, by boarding college students. 

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].  That’s great.

DH:     And, so, for six weeks—And, so, we went to school that first day and we were introduced to our supporting teachers, supervising teachers.  We had not been given any materials.  I mean, books or anything, you know, we would have gotten that the next day.  Well, we came home.  We were so excited.  Sat down and the lady had prepared our meal.  She prepared all of our meals and everything.  And, so, we were all sitting there talking about our experiences of the day.  And she looked outside and she said, “Oh, it’s snowing.”  She said, “Ya’ll might not be able to go to school tomorrow.”  Well, we’re from Charleston.  We thought, “Okay.  So.”

MBR:  Snow.

DH:     Woke up the next morning.  Snow.  No school.  One day.  Two days.  Three days.  Four days.  Five days.  I think we missed seven days of school.

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.

DH:     And we couldn’t even use to time efficiently and prepare because we had no materials.  So, we were the only ones out there playing around in the snow. 

MBR:  That’s a great school story, though.  Well—

DH:     And then I had a very good supervising teacher.  I taught U.S. History.  I had five classes of U.S. History.  And she stayed in the room with me.  I know some supervisor teacher would leave you the minute you get a super—They’d give you the book—Well, they didn’t do that.  Of course, with my student teachers, I never left them either until—Because those were my students.  Until the last week or two, I might start to walk out, but I stayed.  Because how can I evaluate you if I’m not there to observe?  That’s—Plus, these are my students.  I’m getting them back.

MBR:  The Gaffney School, was that an all black—

DH:     Gaffney High School.  All black—

MBR:  Black?

DH:     . . . high school.

MBR:  Okay.

DH:     Gaffney High School and Gaffney—I think it was—I know it was in Gaffney, South Carolina.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     The school may not have been named Gaffney High.  But the school was in Gaffney, South Carolina.  And the principal offered me a teaching position, also.  But I didn’t consider it at all because I knew I wanted to come home to Charleston.  My father died my senior year in college.  We went back in August.  He died in September.  So, I—Well, I wanted to come back anyhow.  And, so—And my mother was here by herself.  So, no—Flat, I turned that down.  And I believe it was Bufford that they had applications and, you know, for teaching.  I looked at the application.  I knew I wanted to take it because I wanted to be home.  But then I saw where they were paying male teachers $300 more than their female teachers.  So, I immediately put that in the trash can.

MBR:  Good for you.  So, you had a lot of preparation.

DH:     Yes.  So, I—

MBR:  I feel like you were ready.

DH:     Yes, I was ready.

MBR:  A 20-year-old.

DH:     A 20-year-old.  A 20-year-old.

MBR:  So, coming to your first class at W. Gresham Meggett.  And you do Social Studies. 

DH:     Yes. 

MBR:  How big were the class sizes?  Were there more boys than girls?  Can you kind of characterize—

DH:     Well, it would have been that summer school class.  Which was probably under 20 students.  But two things I can tell you about that class.  The students were very respectful.  When I had to go through the students’ records, I discovered that one of the young men in my class was a year older than I was.  And a second one was six months older than I was.  But, you know, they were very respectful.  Of course, they didn’t know my age.  They just saw me as the teacher.  But the environment in those days—This is the teacher.  You’re the student, so, you know, you didn’t have any problems, any behavioral problems, not in that respect. 

MBR:  Was Ms. James a mentor to you?

DH:     Well, she—Oh, yes.  Because she was an experienced teacher.  She had taught in Summerville six years before she started teaching a Gresham Meggett.  Because she’s older than I am, yes.  But we shared some of the same values and whatnot.  So, we really became—I said—I spoke to her this morning.

MBR:  I think that’s wonderful.  I like that you’re both considering riding together.  It’s the same pattern.

DH:     Oh, yes.

MBR:  I know.

DH:     Yes.  And now—That’s something.  Because now she is not able to drive because of some health issues.  And, so, I’m her backup driver to take her to either medical appointments or to go run errands for her.  Just Saturday a neighbor of hers died and she wanted to give the family flowers.  And, so, I went and bought the flowers and brought her back to them.  We went together.  I don’t know the neighbor, but I met her then and we went and delivered the flowers and whatnot.  So, yes, we’ve been around, yes.

MBR:  That’s really neat.

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  Well, the years you taught, they were really important years, like, in public education.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  Not only in South Carolina.  Because desegregation was—

DH:     Right.

MBR:  . . . was out there.  When you were there, did you—Were the children prepared for what was ahead?  Do you understand—Did they know that the W. Gresham Meggett experience was going to radically change?

DH:     No.  I don’t think—We weren’t aware of that.  But you know, even at Wallace, our teachers taught us—And, you know, we had limited opportunities because of the time we were brought up in.  But our teachers brought us up to reach for the moon, so to speak.  So, they prepared us so that when I went to South Carolina State College I was able—For example, my weakest subject is math.  My ninth grade algebra teacher was very smart.  However, her idea of teaching—She would come into the room.  She would say, “Okay, class.  I want you to read pages 15 through 20.”  And then she’d walk out the door.  And then she’d come back a few minutes later and she expected us to know everything on that page without explanation.  Luckily, for us, she got pregnant.  And in those days you couldn’t—Once you began to show, you couldn’t remain in the classroom.  Even though you were married, you couldn’t remain in the class—Yes.  Married women couldn’t stay either.  They had to leave.  And, so, she had her child.  And, then, she will eventually end up in a college, which is where she—

MBR:  Was meant to be.

DH:     Yes, you’re right.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     Yes.  As a matter of fact, she’s still alive.  I’m not close to her, but she’s still alive.  Oh, I was about to tell you—So, when I went to South Carolina State, I was hoping—You know, they gave you, during orientation, a mass of exams and whatnot, so they could place you, etc.  But I was hoping to be placed in a remedial math class, so I could learn some math.  Well, I figured out the problems on my own.  They put me in regular algebra and trigonometry.  So, I guess, so I was prepared.  And with the English and the history, we had really good teachers at Wallace.  So, we were prepared for what was to come.  Now, I had no warning and no earthly idea—Maybe I should have known, but I didn’t know that they were going to close Gresham Meggett and, you know, integration was going to come.  I know that there were some teachers who left Gresham Meggett and went to James, the old James Island on Camp Road. 

But I didn’t know about closing Gresham Meggett or that I may end up in a totally different environment.  And, of course, at Fort Johnson, there were only three black teachers.  We were the three who came from Gresham Meggett.  And we were the only three teachers there for a million years, it seems.  Mr. McCray left after a few years to become an assistant principal.  Then he later became a principal.  As a matter of fact, the school on Camp Road, as I drove past it this morning, they have Camp Road Middle.  That was not the name of the school.  But he was principal there for a long time.  And, so, that only left Mrs. James and me for a number of years.  And then when Mrs. James had her baby, Tim, she was gone for six weeks.  So I was the only one.  But, I mean, life goes on.  And then they started hiring one or two other African Americans.  And then, later on, they hired more African Americans.  So, I was accustomed, you know, to working in—I was trying to find a yearbook, that last yearbook for Gresham Meggett last night.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And I could not find it.  I know I talked about giving it to some of the students who have been planning some activities a few years ago.  So, I’m not sure if I followed through with it.  But I must have.  Usually I would have kept at least one.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, that concerns me that I couldn’t find just one copy of it.  I found other yearbooks and I found the first year for Fort Johnson.  And I was looking at them.  I actually went through and counted the—There was 70 African American students.  But I don’t remember the student body.  We were—

MBR:  At Fort Johnson?

DH:     . . . probably—Yes, we—

MBR:  That first year?

DH:     That first year.  I think we were probably about 600, maybe 600.  Because they pulled students from the old James Island—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . and then a few students from Gresham Meggett.  And that’s how they made up the student body for Fort Johnson.

MBR:  All right.  Did—Were you welcomed there as teacher?  Did the other teachers—How’d that work?

DH:     Well, let’s put it this way.  At Gresham Meggett, when you walked in in the morning to sign in, Mrs. English, who was the secretary, greeted you.  “Good morning.  How are you.”  She literally made your day.  So, you felt welcome or what have you.  We went to Fort Johnson.  We walked into the front office.  And we were so used to saying, “Good morning.”  And no one responded.  No one.  Said, “Okay . . . “So, luckily, I had three years under my belt.  And Mr. McCray and Mrs. James, they were old pros, so that was all right.  But I was lacking. At lunch we ate together.  They’d say “Oh, come on, Diane, you need to do so and so.”  So, I had my support there. 

And I remember a math teacher, Mrs. Jansen.  Her classroom was on a hallway that was perpendicular to mine.  But in order to get to the faculty restroom, she had to pass my door.  And we had to stand in front of our door.  And she would pass.  And when she get [turns away and puts her nose in the air]—But by the time she retired, she was—She’d call me—All that had changed, of course.  Her granddaughter—She had a grandchild who was in one of the middle schools over here.  And a social studies teacher gave the child an assignment which was ludicrous, really.  It was, like, a date and then you find—It was just ter—It was a terrible assignment.  It really was.  And, so, she actually called and asked me for help with her grandchild.  And that secretary in the front office who didn’t want to speak, after a while, “Ms. Hamilton, can I help you with something?”  With, you know—We had to put—And Mrs. James and Mr. McCray—If grades were due on a particular day, a report was due on the 10th, we had ours done, like, on the 8th.  I’m afraid we never asked them for any help.  So, after a while, “Ms. Hamilton, can I help you with so and so?  Can I do so and so for you?”  Eventually, she had a granddaughter who ended up in my class.

MBR:  Because you taught white and black students then, right?

DH:     Yes.  So, I had primarily white students.  And I taught—Usually I taught electives.  So, a lot of times I had smaller classes.  I had primarily white students.  And, when I started teaching the AP, my advanced placement college class, I only had—Once in a while, I may have one black student, but usually I had—So, that was no problem.  And when I retired from, in 99, there, I thought it was over.  I received a call from the School of the Arts.  I didn’t particularly care for the magnet process.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Because when they were going to open the academic magnet high school, they asked me to interview.  I said, “No.  I’m not leaving Fort Johnson to go—”  “But Ms. Hamilton, come for the interview anyhow.”  “Okay.  But I’m not leaving.”  So, I went for the interview.  And we sat—My interview was a 3 o’clock and it ended at 5.

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.

DH:     The gentleman—I’m don’t—He was the first headmaster.  We had the best conversation.  We talked and chatted.  We had a great time for two hours.  But I—still wouldn’t leave.  because I didn’t particularly care for the content  So, when I retired, I received a call from School of the Arts.  “Ms. Hamilton, could you come and help us out a couple of weeks?”  They had hired a ninth grade world global studies teacher.  But at the last minute, the teacher was offered a position somewhere else making, I think, $22,000 above Charleston.  I mean, that was a no-brainer.

MBR:  You gotta go.  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And, so, the person left.  So, here school was going to open in a week and they didn’t have a social studies teacher.  Well, they knew—Well, one of the persons over there used to be on the district level.  And I was department chair for 17 years, so knew me and what have you.  And I had worked on the curriculum for the actual writing of global studies.  That’s my favorite.  Anyhow, so I said—And they said, “You don’t have to do any administration.  You don’t have to be department chair.  You only have to teach one subject.  You don’t—I usually taught three.  You don’t have to teach but one subject and it’s global studies.”  Okay.  “Help us out for a couple of weeks till we find someone.”  I said, “Okay.”  It lasted five years.

MBR:  Five years.

DH:     And the first three years I was the only black on the academic faculty and the arts faculty.  And then, third or fourth year, they hired a gentleman on the—As a matter of fact, the person they hired was Mr. Singleton.  He’s a well-known musician here locally now.  I can’t think of his first name right now.  But he was on the acad—He was on the arts faculty and middle school.  So, high school I was still the only one that looked like me.  So, I’m used to—I mean, children are children.  You know, they are people.  I get along—

MBR:  You get along fine.

DH:     Yeah, we all get along.  Yeah.

MBR:  Well, how about when you had to deal with parents?  I mean you came from W. Gresham Meggett.  And in the interviews I’ve done so far—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  People have talked about nurturing.  That this was—This school, people came to learn.

DH:     Right.

MBR:  The teachers were of high caliber.

DH:     Oh, yes, yes.

MBR:  Class size—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  . . . smallish?

DH:     Yeah.  Class size was not an issue.  I had probably 25, maybe a little bit more.  I don’t remember class size being a big issue.

MBR:  Big issue.

DH:     It’s just a different environment.  I’ll tell you one story, which I should not, but I will.  I can’t remember whether it was my first or second year there.  I’m the type of person who didn’t leave the school as soon as the bell rang.  So, I usually tried to set things up for the next day.  Get my ideas together, my lesson together and whatnot for the next school day, or whatever.  And I was in—My classroom was on the third wing.  Which means the far, the back wing.  And, so, I felt safe being there by myself in the afternoon in the wing.  You know, you have the staff that’s cleaning the building.  But I didn’t have any issues or anything.  I sat there and one day, one afternoon, rather, the young lady came.  She was one of my students.  She came.  And I was sitting at my desk working.  And she came and she said, “Ms. Hamilton, I’m going to kill you.”  And she said—And I think she said she was going to do something to herself.  I said—I just looked at her.  I said, “Okay.”  Make a long story short, we—I talked with her, I guess about an hour and a half or two hours.  She was in her already 20 or 21.  She had failed U.S. history several times before.  And she was in my class and I didn’t believe in curving grades and—

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     . . . that kind of thing. 

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, she was not doing well in my class.  So, she was just at the end.  So, I talked to her and shared some experiences with her and what have you.  And I still sat at my desk.  And when she walked up, she put the razor blade on my desk.  The principal never knew about it.  I never report—Now if that happened today—

MBR:  I know.

DH:     . . . I would have a written report out.  But I never reported to the principal.  I never told anyone about it.  And the young lady—I never mentioned it to her again.  She came back to class the next day.  I didn’t hold it against her or anything.  We just moved on.  But I can’t remember whether she passed or failed my class or not.  But I never—We never had any other interactions.  But that was the climate where you could talk to children.  And if someone is, you know, in that situation—I know at Fort Johnson I started doing homebound and it was usually in those days for the girls who had gotten pregnant.  They weren’t bad girls.  They weren’t causing any problems.  But in those days they couldn’t come to school, so they’d have a homebound teacher take them their work.  I didn’t know any better.  I tried to teach the girls whatever classes they were in.  And I had this particular—I remember Mrs. Daniel, who was the guidance counselor.  She was too cute.  She tried to impress upon me, “Now, Ms. Hamilton, we want you to serve as this lady’s, young lady’s teacher, homebound teacher.”  But basically she was saying to me, “You don’t have to worry about whether she passed, the grades, anything.”  Because the type of—She had cancer and it was here somewhere [the neck].

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And they were treating her.  She had to go in for radiation.  As a matter of fact, on Mondays her skin was kind of brown and by Friday her neck would be black.  And then it would lighten up those two days she was off.  And then what have you.  And she said, “You know, as soon as that cancer gets—”  So, she wanted me to understand, I think prognosis is to die. 

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     So, I said, “Okay.”  I thought, “Oh, my gosh.  What am I, what have I signed up for?”  Because, my mom wanted me to be a nurse, but I knew I couldn’t handle that.  And, so, I said, “This girl’s going to be, you know, stretched out in bed.  How are you going to deal with this?”  And I thought, “Okay.”  I drove up to her house and there was a young person in the yard watering the flowers.  So, I said, “Good afternoon.”  I introduced myself.  “I’m Diane Hamilton.  I’m here to see . . .” and I called her name.  That was the girl I came to see.  I thought “Okay.”  She never called off one session because she felt sick or was having a reaction to the medication.  She loved going to school.  She actually would lie to her mother to go to school.  Because once in a while her mother would pull her out of school, or keep her home to do something.  And she would tell her mom, “I have a test.”  Because she knew if the mom knew she had a test, the mom wouldn’t keep her that day.  So, whether she had a test or not, she would say she had a test, so she could go to school. 

And this particular day she was quite depressed because she had a cousin who was in a special ed class.  And that cousin was going to graduate and come out and what not.  And here she was being—She was just so—I ended up spending an extra hour-and-a-half or two hours that day with her.  You know, not being paid or anything, because you only get so much whatever, but because she just needed that interaction.  And we just talked and talked back and forth.  And, luckily, we finished the section.  And in those days, the English department had something called mini-courses.  And, so, the year was divided into four pieces.  And you had to earn your credit in all four segments.  You couldn’t average it together in order to get the passing grade.  But the girl, before I started tutoring her, she had failed one quarter.  Not—Think in the 60s, 68 or something like that.

MBR:  Close.

DH:     And, so, the time that I had with her, plus they gave me extended time to go during the summer a little bit to help get her caught up, she passed those quarters.  And I gave her the work and she did the work.  And, so, I spoke to the principal.  And I explained and he gave me permission to average her grades, because, after all, they didn’t think she was going to survive.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     She survived.  She did not come back to school the next school term because they had to extract her teeth.  And her mother didn’t have the resources to, you know, get the new set put in.  But the year after, she got her new set.  She came back.  She melted right into the student population just like anyone else and she graduated.  I didn’t see her anymore.  And many years later I had a—This would have been ‘80, ‘82.  I had a little cousin, who’s also my god-child.  I went to pick up Melinda from daycare and who was in there?  This young lady.  Picking up her 3-year-old.  She survived it.

MBR:  That’s great.  That’s very inspirational.  No, I appreciate you letting me know that, you know.

DH:     You don’t ask me all of that.

MBR:  No, no.

DH:     But it’s not the right school, but it’s—

MBR:  It tells—No, but it tells you—No.  Fort Johnson’s very much a part of this story—

DH:     Yes.  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  . . . too.

DH:     Right.  Because that’s where the students—

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     And I remember I had—I gave my students a project—My—I guess probably U.S. history.  I can’t remember the title that I—This was the old days when you had floppy disks.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, the information’s on the floppy disk.  But they had to, as a part of this history project, they had to interview at least one person who either worked at Fort Johnson, James Island, attended or work there.  Fort Johnson, James Island and Gresham Meggett.  And then they had to deal with—People who worked there, students.  Then they had to talk to their parents—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . and their grandparents, too.  And, so, they had to pull all of this together.  And I remember somebody did a videotape.  Where could I find that?  But anyway.  But I wanted to meld the schools.  And, then, there was something from Gresham Meggett.  I think Mr. Veroney did get it.  A cornerstone or something that put, I think, in the courtyard.  Because I’m thinking, you know, we have the name Fort Johnson.  Well, that was moved to the old James Island building.  And then, so you had James Island and old James Island.  The name was then put on the Fort Johnson.  But I’m in the classroom, but I’ll say, “Oh, I’m at a different school.”  And, then, we—They took the mascot, which was the old James Island mascot.  But they kept the colors from Fort Johnson.  So I wanted to have a piece of James Island because that’s how—

MBR:  Yeah, yeah.

DH:     So, that was their big project.  And, so, the kids did a good job of that, too.  Kind of, you know, meshed the three together.  Because that’s the foundation of how Fort Johnson came, was from—

MBR:  From there.

DH:     From—Yes.

MBR:  Well, I guess, in 1969—

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  And I can, you can correct me—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  Did—Were there white teachers at W. Gresham Meggett?

DH:     I’m trying—I think—

MBR:  Did they start introducing—

DH:     . . . we did—I think they started—So, I should have been aware.  I think we did have a white teacher at Fort, I mean at Gresham Meggett.  I know we didn’t have any white students.  That I know.

MBR:  Ah, okay.

DH:     It was still a totally black population, student population.  And then, some—I remember Margaret Smith, who taught across the hall from me.  As a matter of fact, that first year, before I started driving, there was a gas station by the bus stop in South Windemere.  So, I would buy peanuts.  And we would share the peanuts in between class.  Margaret Smith taught psychology, I believe, and maybe some U.S. history.  But she was social studies.  She ended up marrying another gentleman who taught somewhere—Got her second husband, Mr. Richardson.  But Margaret went over to James Island.  Yes, I remember—Beforehand, before.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And then the next thing, three of us were thrust into that environment.

MBR:  Did you feel like you were thrust?  I mean, were you happy to be picked?  I mean—

DH:     You know, I really didn’t think about it.  That summer, it was a strange summer.  That was the summer I did that.  I was—It had to be—I had a summer job.  I traveled working between, whatever, if something came up.  I went to an agency that handles jobs.

MBR:  Sure.

DH:     I can’t remember—

MBR:  Employment agency.

DH:     Yes.  Employment agency.  And this family had lost their governess.  And, so, they needed someone for a short while to look after two children, a 7 and an 8-year-old.  7 and 8 or 7 and 9.  7 and 9.  And, so, I was hired.  That was the hardest job of my life.  It was really hard.  Number one, I had to stay with the family during week.  I know, I was forced to stay in their beach house on Sullivan’s Island. 

MBR:  That was your summer?

DH:     Well, that’s just the first part.  That’s the first two weeks.  Really bad.  It gets worse after that.  And I stayed—I mean I had this whole beach house to myself. 

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.

DH:     And then I would go in in the morning.  And I’m—Oh, I did have to do two really terrible tasks.  At night I would have to damp-mop the kitchen, which was really hard.  And then I had to put, open a can of cat food and put it in the automatic container.  And then it opened early in the morning so the cats could be fed.  That was real difficult.  The little kids—I mean, they were 7 and 9.  I didn’t have to do anything for them.  They would go down to the beach and play and what have you. 

But then, after two weeks, I had to take—That’s when the real hard work started.  I had to take them to their grandmother.  And we were traveling by airplane.  I had never flown before.  And, so, we went out to the airport.  And the plane was based out of Florida, National Airlines.  Plane came in.  We were seated on the plane.  And we sat and we sat.  And then this, they called them stewardess at that time, now they’re flight attendants.  But they came and said, we have to de-plane.  And, of course, the kids were so disappointed.  I was too, because I wanted to get this part over with.  And, so, we got off the plane.  We got back with the mother.  She took us back to—And the two little kids were just so sad.  We went back to Sullivan’s Island.  And the mother told us what happened.  In between Florida and Charleston, the airplane lost its hydraulic fluid.  So, if it had taken off if would have had difficulty landing.

MBR:  Oh, boy.

DH:     So, the next morning, same routine.  We came back out, got on the plane.  Same plane, National.  Another National.  And we flew into—Was it Richmond?  I know we had to make one stop.  But she had someone to meet us and walk us to our changeover.  And there were only two ways to get to the grandmother’s home.  And one is to fly.  And the other is ferry.  I was praying for the ferry.  But when we got off the airplane, a gentleman came up to me and said, “Are you Diane Hamilton?”  “Yes, I am.” 

MBR:  Oh, my.

DH:     “I’m here to pick you up.”  “God damn.”  A four-seater.  So, the two kids are in the back, like you’re in a car.  I’m in front with the pilot.  And just a short flight to Fisher’s Island.  And we get to Fisher’s Island and—

MBR:  Virginia?

DH:     New York.  It’s really New York.  But you have to get there by going to New London, Connecticut.

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.

DH:     So, we had to fly to New London.  That’s for the change.  We went to New London, Connecticut.  My first time there.  And only time, so far.  And we got off the airplane.  And the housekeeper was there to pick us up.  And so we get up and go.  We drive.  The island is about 9 miles by 7 miles.  And the wealthy, the rich and famous lives there.  And we went to the grandmother’s house.  It was three days before I met the grandmother.

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.

DH:     I saw her one afternoon.  We were looking at the dogs in the dog kennel.  And she was standing there—Very nice.  And we just chatted.  That was how I met her.  Because she had a housekeeper.  And the housekeeper supervised the staff.  And, so, it really got hard now.  Because, in the mornings, the children—We would have breakfast, the three of us.  We would go into the big house.  Bigger to where—because I stayed with the children.  We stayed.  And we would go for our meals.  And then Alice, the cook, would prepare our meals.  And we would eat, the three of us.  And then we would get up from the table, leave everything and then the chauffeur would drive us to the children’s club house, country club.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     You know, they had one for the adults and one for—So, I read so many books.  I’m trying to figure, where’d I get all those books.  Because all I had to do was sit there and keep these little tickets.  And the kids would come and just get—“Diane, I need 10 tickets.”  “There are your tickets.”  And they would—And then at lunch the chauffeur would come and pick us up.

MBR:  And go home.

DH:     And we’d go out and have lunch.  And then he would bring us back.  Then he’d come back and get us.  So, it was a real hard job. 

MBR:  You—Oh, my goodness.  That sounds like a fairytale.

DH:     It does.  It was.  And, so, that was it.  And then one weekend—We were out there, what, two weekends.  The chauffeur had a little too much to drink and he didn’t come back when he was supposed.  So, he was gone a couple of days.  And it was the day—I think it was Thursday, everyone on the island, worker, they had that day off.  And, so, they had a place for them to go for their recreation.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And, so, the house didn’t demand, but asked me, could I—And they knew I could drive.  “Would you mind driving the staff, too.”  And they had at least three vehicles.  One was some foreign-made car.  It was too small anyhow.  I couldn’t drive it.  It had stick shift.  Then another, I wouldn’t be able to drive because of reason.  So, the only one I could drive would be the station wagon.  So, I drove the—And I drove them to their place, so they could have their entertainment.  They thanked me.  You know, the—But that they asked me, “Would you mind driving?”  I said, “No.”  And then they asked me to plan a little birthday party for someone.  It was fun.  But the family is the Manigault family, who owns the Post and Courier.

MBR:  Makes sense.

DH:     Yeah, makes sense.

MBR:  Makes sense.

DH:     Yes.  But it was the wife’s mother, was Peter’s—The wife—They’re not married now.  They’re divorced now.  But it was Peter’s wife.  She was the nicest person to get along with.

MBR:  So, this was your summer in between—

DH:     That was my summer.

MBR:  . . . Meggett and Fort Johnson?  Or between Meggett—

DH:     I believe so, yes.  It had to have been—Yes.  Because it was very close in there.  Yes.  So—

MBR:  You really—I mean, I was going to say, How did you prepare yourself for being thrust into, like, what was now—  You—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  I think I’m looking at someone who’s fairly intrepid.

DH:     Yeah, but going to Gresham—You know, I just—I made up my mind when—Oh, the reason I brought all that—I knew there was a reason.  I brought that up because it was while I was there, when I came home that one weekend, I saw that I had mail.  And the mail was a letter from the superintendent’s office saying that I must report to the superintendent at such and such a date, such and such a time.  And that—And I went to that appointment.  That’s when I found out Meggett had closed.  They did no preparation, nothing.  That’s how we found out.  A letter came saying report to the superintendent.  And the superintendent said you have now been reassigned to such and such a school.

MBR:  Was there a community outcry?  Did people—

DH:     No.  Far as I remember, nothing.  We just accepted.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Now, in 1983, when Fort Johnson merged with James Island, we had a whole year of preparation.  First, all the department heads, we had to —And I was department head. 

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     We had to meet the department heads at the other school. And then they brought the students’ leaders over.  And then they brought the student bodies.  But for a whole year they made preparation—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . for the merging of James Island and Fort Johnson.  But they did not do any of that when they opened Fort Johnson they decided—For example, the head of the English department was Jean Bentley, nice lady, from the old James Island.  She didn’t have a Master’s degree.  Mrs. James, who was head of the English department at Gresham Meggett, had a Master’s degree.  Only one white teacher had a Master’s degree.  And that was Lois Vivan.  She came here from New York.  All—I mean that wasn’t prevalent.  You know, everybody have a Master’s or more now.  But that was not prevalent at that time.  But Jean Bentley was made the chairperson of the English department.  Somebody else was made chair of math.  But McCray had a Master’s in math already.

MBR:  Oh.

DH:     Yeah.

MBR:  Oh.

DH:     So, you had that.  So, there was no preparation.  And, see, I was there to witness both times.  No preparation.  But the second time, boy, there was tremendous prepar—And then Mr. Hyatt, who was our principal, said that for the next year, instead of deciding who would be department chairs—By this time, he had starting letting—Well, we had Ms. Wiggins, who was my first department chair at Gresham Meggett.  She came from the—I mean at Fort Johnson.  She came from the old James Island.  When she left to become—Well, she retired.  Mrs. Horsley, who was new to the school, a couple of years, became a very good friend of mine.  We did some traveling together.  They made her the chairperson.  And, then, when Ms. Horsley decided to leave, Mr. Hyatt said that, instead of him appointing someone, he said for the department to elect someone.  So, they elected me.  I was the only African American in the department.  But, any rate, they elected me chairperson.  And that’s how I became chairperson.  But—So, when we merged with the old James Island, for that first year we had to—If you were chairperson at Fort Johnson, then you were co-chairperson with the other person.  So for—

MBR:  Yeah.  So much better.

DH:     But I—

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     I remember the lady who was the chair at James Island.  I had never seen her before.  Because she didn’t bother to attend—You know, you have district meetings?

MBR:  That’s what I wondered.

DH:     We had—So, I knew all the chairpersons at Burr and Mildenom [phonetic 00:48:59] and Middleton—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . and Ellen McCline [phonetic 00:49:02], at St. Andrew’s [phonetic 00:49:04], white teachers and what not.  We knew each other for years.  Because we would—We served on textbook committees.  We served on other committees.  Never saw the one from James because she didn’t bother to show up.  But that’s another story.  And, so, then we shared the job.  I said—Well, you know, you receive mail every day.  So, you go to your mailbox.  And I always have something for social studies every day.  I said, “I tell you what.  Why don’t you pick up the mail twice a week, I mean twice a month.  And I’ll pick it up.”  Do you know that during the weeks when she was supposed to pick up mail, there was never any mail?  That was interesting.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     For a whole year.  And then I found out later that’s the way she behaved at the other school.  If she saw something, she might share it with people in the department or people she hand-picked and what not for that department.  But that was just—was not her style.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     So, I’m used to—And then, when I have a meeting, I would have an agenda printed out.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     And anything I find out, I’m going to share with my—Because that’s who I am, thinking I’m in this position and what not.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     So, then, after a year, the people voted.  And they still voted me and that’s how I’m chairperson.  So, I am made chairperson.  So, I served a total of about 17 years.

MBR:  At?

DH:     Fort Johnson—

MBR:  Fort Johnson.

DH:     . . . and James Island.

MBR:  And James Island.

DH:     Between the two, yeah.

MBR:  Between the two.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  Well, I think they recognized your abilities.  It’s clear to me.  It’s—I hadn’t really thought about it.  That people coming in with—That had higher degrees and more experience—

DH:     Oh, yes.

MBR:  That wasn’t probably recog—Because there wasn’t any—It was just a very quick response to integration.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].  It had—

MBR:  Without preparing—

DH:     I’m sure the people—

MBR:  Who was really prepared at this point?

DH:     I’m sure the people at James Island had something, because they had decided who was going to head the various departments.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, they knew.  But we didn’t know, as far as I know.  I don’t know what Mr. Evans knew.  That was the principal.  But I know—I got a letter over the summer.  We got letters over the summer that said, “You have now been reassigned.”  And they didn’t negotiate.  Is this a good time for you to come?  It’s—The letter stated the—And luckily I was in town.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     Suppose I was on that very difficult job.

MBR:  That’s what I was thinking.

DH:     On Fisher’s Island.

MBR:  Well, did people lose jobs?  Did teachers that were at Meggett

DH:     A lot of those—

MBR:  . . . lose jobs?

DH:     A lot of those teachers were sent to middle schools.

MBR:  Okay.

DH:     Now, see.  Your certification—My certification’s in high school.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Secondary education.  But most of them, a large number of them, were sent to middle schools.  And then—They didn’t—I don’t remember anybody basically losing a job.  But they were not in high school anymore.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     And, for me, I wouldn’t want to teach—I liked the upper level.  The ninth—not ninth.  Eleventh and twelfth graders, ten and above, is what I preferred.  I wouldn’t want to go to a middle school or an elementary school.  I don’t think anyone went to elementary school.  But I know a number of them went to middle schools.

MBR:  The middle schools.

DH:     And then a few went to the old James Island.  More went to the old James Island.  Because, I said, they only pulled three of us for the Fort Johnson.  And two out of the three had Master’s.  So, that’s how they made their choices.

MBR:  I think so, too.

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DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  Did you have any difficulty with parents?  Or the student body—

DH:     Parents were—

MBR:  . . . at Fort Johnson?  I mean—

DH:     Yes, right.

MBR:  . . . at least for the first couple of years.

DH:     Right, for—You know, parents would come in—For example, I know—I had an assignment—I always had my students to do research, what have you.  And there was a book.  I don’t remember the title of the book.  But it was a U.S. history book.  And in the appendix, there were, you know, a long list of references.  And there was one person in there who someone took issue with.  They thought the person was a communist or something.  I can’t remember.  It was one—And so, they actually—I guess they called the principal.  And then they had Mr., Dr. Draper, who was the social studies coordinator from downtown—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Came in and had a conversation with me.  Guess what?  I didn’t move the book off of my desk.  So, that was a moot point.  And then another occasion, I had a calendar in my room that had the pictures of John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King.  And somebody took with the picture being on my wall.  The picture stayed on my wall.  I didn’t take it off.  What have you.  And, so, those were my only—And I remember once—He’s deceased now.  But John Graham Altman, remember—  Oh, I’m sorry, you’re not from here.

MBR:  Right, right.  Okay.

DH:     You would not have known John Graham.  But anyway, he was—But anyway, I had a parent—This little girl was like one of my top students.  And I—And you know with some times kids would go home and they’d talk about what they learned in class.  And, of course, she was hearing some things in class—I guess she was accustomed to hearing a certain perspective.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And, in my class, she heard—She just went home and chatted and what not.  And the parent took issue, but did not come to me directly.  Instead, the parent went to John Graham Altman.  So, I wrote a letter to John Graham Altman and I sent the parent a copy.  But I addressed it to him, because they didn’t address me.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     And I simply went down the line.  Nothing happened.  And that worked out—Yeah, I’ll tell later.  I did get to meet him afterwards.  But the child stayed in my class.  And then—Was it that year or later that year?  I used to do a mock trial.  And the little girl wanted to work with mock trial.  Sure.  So, I let her come in with me.  And the father actually came to the competition with the family.  So, that’s how my encounters ended.  And, then, they invited me to talk at the school board one night about some of the things that we did in my classroom.  And I used to have some students participate on the teleconference.  I had two types of teleconferences. 

One with C-SPAN, because of the Closeup Foundation.  And, so, I would get a grant.  And once they would select three schools from across the whole country to be able to call in and ask questions of professionals on that topic.  And, so, what I would do—I had it set up so whatever my topic—I would select a topic that I didn’t know very much about.  So, I would end up doing research.  I’d learn something.  And, so, I would assign it to my students.  So, they would do their little research and what not.  So, they could formulate their own questions.  I’m not going to tell them what to ask.  So, my students were well aware of the topics.  Except the very first one, because it came so quickly.  But we survived it.  And, so, we did that.  And, then, the day of the event—Oh, first of all, the first time we were allowed to do this, we needed cable in school.  And we didn’t have cable in our school.  So, I went to the principal and I said, “Mr. Hyatt, we need cable TV in the school.”  So, he told the librarian—Someone told me that when Comcast—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     I think they were a store cable then.  They made some kind of a deal or something about making, having public access, whatever.  So, I mentioned this to Mr. Hyatt.  And he told the librarian to contact—Bottom line is we got the cable.  And actually, the cable was completed like morning—

MBR:  Of the event.

DH:     That was cutting it close.  Because you had this equipment that you had to connect to it so the students could call in.  And there was no visual, but their voices were heard, you know, as they asked their questions.

MBR:  They must have loved that.

DH:     Yes.  We did this for about eight, nine years?  Something like that.  I did that after—We used to take students to DC.  I wasn’t having that many students going.  So, this was another way.  And I would, I think the first one we had about 70 kids to—participate.  Because I encouraged mine to participate, meaning they had to.  That’s because they had to do the research.  And, so, they really wanted to.  And then I would set up duties.  I had some to be greeters that afternoon.  And then we would invite someone from the Citadel or the College of Charleston or Baptist College to come and serve as our in-house expert.  And, so, they would have registration.  And then, for an hour, my students could ask a local expert about the question.  And then from 5 until 6—And then from 5 until 6, they would call into the national studio in DC and C-SPAN.  And then they would ask their questions. 

I talk about Brian Lamb.  I just wanted to see if it’s still on TV this week.  And, so, it was just a wonderful experience, you know, for children.  And, so, I talked about that teleconference.  And, then, I had another where I took a student through SCETV in Columbia.  And that worked out.  So, but again, John Graham Altman, of course, was there.  And he asked me some questions himself.  It was really nice.

MBR:  That’s great.

DH:     He was very polite.  But he was definitely a difficult person to, you know—You didn’t want to get on his wrong side.  I’m sorry.  I’m going to explain this, yes.  Because we had a situation where two, three—All three of them are Caucasians.  But these two teachers decided they would send something that this third teacher did to John Graham Altman.  And that lady was—And she really didn’t deserve it.  She was being kind to a student.  And she was put on suspension without pay for three or four days.  She couldn’t afford that.  She couldn’t afford that out of her salary.  She was a single mother of five children.  Her husband had left her.  She couldn’t afford that.  But those other two teachers—they sent it to John Graham Altman.  And they exploited that.  And that was awful.

MBR:  Yeah.  Well, I’m taken aback at your, the breadth of what you’ve lived through.

DH:     Oh.

MBR:  Okay?

DH:     Yeah.

MBR:  And, like, when you look back—

DH:     Yeah.

MBR:  . . . at the teacher experience at Meggett.

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  And you compare it to—Can you compare it to the Fort Johnson?  Were there really any difference between the two schools in terms of your student body?  And the kids and their need to learn?

DH:     Now the students, no—Some—I remember this one boy in particular.  He was never rude or disrespectful to me.  He failed my class.  That’s all right, too.  He sat on the front row in the center, I remember.  But he just couldn’t fathom the idea of having a black teacher.  So, he just couldn’t, wouldn’t do the work, couldn’t do the—He just couldn’t get through that.  So, you had that.  But, again, at Fort Johnson, I never had a student who called me a bad name, or yell, or scream, or anything like—I did not have that.  Even from the beginning, I know there were some who would have preferred to be elsewhere.  They would not sign up.  And since my class was elective, too, most of the time they didn’t have to take my class.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Now, if I’d taught a history, a regular U.S. history, well that’s not an elective.  But mostly I taught world history, which was—But I would have a full section.  I didn’t have—You know, I had 20, 25 students.  A nice-sized class.  And when I taught my AP, my AP classes were usually small.  But that’s just the nature of the game there.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     My largest was 21.  I was talking about that class recently, too, because some of those students have gone on—One of them, Damon Wilson—He was such a—He was a student that the students liked him and the teachers.  You know, usually it’s one or the other.  And he went with me on one of the trips to DC.  He was one of my students that went with me to DC that year.  He graduated from our school, went to Duke.  And I think his first year he wrote an independent program which took him to Poland for nine weeks or —be was a brilliant—program.

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     Yes.  And then later he—Well, his last—Well, I can’t say the last of it—I just talked to his mother and she told me what he’s doing now.  But when Condoleezza Rice was National—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . Security person for the Bush administration, it was his task to advise her on—He’s the—Yes.  And his mother is the president of Trident Tech[nical College]  And I never met her.  When I was taking him on the trip, I called her on the telephone just—You know, I was making contact with the parents.  And I explained and she wrote a full check for him to go with me. 

MBR:  Wow.

DH:     Yes.  And then I had a young lady, Katie.  Katie was something.  Katie would have a watch on this hand and she would have a watch on this hand.  And neither one worked.  I said, “Katie, why do you have a watch on?”  “I just liked it.”  But she was the nicest—No problem.  She went on.  She studied something else in college.  And she started going to, like, international relations in Georgetown or something like that.  She worked at one of the embassies in, I think, Guyana.  And then she ended up working for six months with Madeleine Albright.

MBR:  These students are great.

DH:     Yes.  And her brother, who’s a lawyer.  But her dad is a federal judge.  He’s Michael Duffy.  His—I taught two of his three children.

MBR:  That must make you feel really good.

DH:     Yes, yes.  And, like I said—And I’ve had parents—When you’re talking about getting along with the parents.  I’ve had parents who I made an assignment and they’d come and want a conference.  I said, “Okay.”  So, I’d go into the conference.  And Mr. Hyatt is sitting there and Mr. Fleming, the assistant principal, is there.  I don’t let—They don’t care.  And it’s my conference.  So, we talk and they just listen.  And usually when the parent leaves, the parent—Like, one parent, “Ms. Hamilton, is there anything I can do for you?”  I said, “Yes.  There’s one thing.”  Because we used to collect $2 social studies fee.  And with my teacher discount, I would always buy books.  That’s about old, old days.  And because the students would always have to read, you know, do book reports.  And then, at the end of—For example, we did Hiroshima.  Now we say Hi-RO-shim-a.  We called it Hiro-SHI-ma in the old days.

MBR:  Me, too.

DH:     And there was a—Think of another title I used.  But anyway, related to World War II:.  And, so, that’s—Hiroshima.  And there was another one about the children.  There was case studies of teenagers and what they did during the Second World War.  And their resistance activities.  Excellent little book.  But I used to—I said, “Well, you can get me some more money to buy whatever.”  So, that’s how it worked out.  And, then, I will give you one other story.  There was a woman who came one morning.  If looks could kill, you would not be having this long interview.  She was so angry, angry, angry.  And she sat across from me.  She was not—I was—I had a little manila folder.  I said, “Good morning.”  She was angry.  She said I was failing her daughter.  “My daughter brought all these papers home and you are failing her.”  This was a progress report time.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     I listened to her.  I said, “Okay, Mrs. Whatever.  I don’t know what papers your daughter showed you.”  And I opened the folder.  “But these are your daughter’s papers.”  Because I used to keep them.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And so, this is her grades, this is what she has made. And then the daughter came into the room acting wild in the office.  Because we were in the principal’s office.  And she said to her daughter, “You’ve got a wonderful history teacher.”  The daughter just kind of looked at her.  She didn’t say anything.  So, the daughter said, “I don’t think you should—”  The mother said to the daughter, “I don’t think you need to go somewhere.”  They were planning a trip that weekend.  The daughter just looked at the mother and kind felt betrayed, I think.  “I’m going.”  It turned out that the girl and the father were very close.  The mother probably did not have a college education.  Which shouldn’t have been a factor.  She was the mother.  But I guess they kind of held her hostage, whatnot.  She was going to do whatever she wanted to do.  She was in charge.  And you know what that mother said to me, “She’s my daughter.  I have to believe her.”  “No, you don’t.”  But I didn’t tell her that.  But, you know, she was angry. 

But when—So, I always kept the information.  If I have something to show.  That happened to me once at the School of the Arts.  These, in government, there would be a large binder they have to put the information in.  And I had these two little darlings.  They decided they would do their own binder—She didn’t have to read all that stuff.  So, they put it all together.  They don’t know I turn every single page and every single one.  They used the same information.  They changed the font.  The same identical words.  And, so, I gave them an F, both of them.  And the project counted a large percent of the grade.  So, it caused the boy to fail totally and the girl’s grade to drop from a B to C. 

So, the parents came in.  Especially, the School of the Arts, you know, you’re supposed to be selective.  You’re supposed to cater to these little darlings.  Okay.  And then they said we’re supposed to meet between the parents.  Well, they showed up.  The parents came.  They brought the two children, which I don’t have an objection to in reality.  But I wasn’t told this in advance.  And then they had the two principals.  That’s okay.  Two assistant principals.  That’s okay.  So, I let them talk.  So, then I questioned little boy.  “Oh, we worked together.  We didn’t—”  I said, “Okay, now, just tell me, you know, which part of this did you do?”  “Well, I can’t—”  He couldn’t identify one thing he did on his own.  Not one.  And the mother, “They tied up my phone.  I couldn’t get to my—Because they were on there doing all this work.”  So—I said, “Look at page five here.”  And I just went through.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, then the parents—I said, “I’ll tell you what.”  And, I must have given them a zero, I guess.  I said, “I’ll tell you what.  Since you said they did some of the work and what have you, I’ll raise is up to maybe a 50.”  You know, still an F.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     “How about that?”  So, it ended up with the girl’s grade just dropping to one letter and the boy, he actually failed.  So, when it ended, they said, “Does Ms. Hamilton have the last say so on this?” 

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     So, the next day I was expecting to be called into the principal’s office, Mrs. Meyers.  I just knew I was going to be called in.  So, I waited all day with a smile on my face.  I didn’t get a call.  So, I walked in the building that afternoon and I saw the two principals.  And one of them was real tall, must be 6—He towered over me.  I think I’m tall, but he was 6’ something.  They walk over and he hugged me.  I said, “Aren’t I going to be called in?”  They said, “Be called in for what?”  I said, “The way the conference last night, the parents know—Is Ms. Hamilton—”  They look at me.  “That’s all—That was first semester.  Government.  So, they had to come right back to me next semester for econ.  Both of these courses are required for education.  They didn’t cause any problems.  Well, they didn’t cause any problems before, they just cheated.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     They came back.  I didn’t have an issue with them at all.  I used to have them doing—I thought, even though, you know, you’re super-smart, you still need to know things like how to fill out a tax return.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, I had them to go through that.  And the girl came back and said, “Ms. Hamilton, I got my $300 refund.”  She did her own taxes.

MBR:  That’s fantastic.

DH:     Came back and told me.  The boy, after he graduated, came back and visited me once.  So—

MBR:  That must have been—On that, I know this—I have, probably, a couple more questions—

DH:     Yes, yeah.

MBR:  . . . this is a good—In terms of materials like books, desks, the things that make up a school.  How different—Like, people we’ve interviewed that have gone to Meggett—

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  They got leftover books, second hand books. 

DH:     You know, I heard—

MBR:  Or was that earlier on?

DH:     . . . someone talk about—Yes.

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     They would get.  But while I went through the same thing at Wallace.  You know, we used to get the second-hand books, too, and all.  But I guess—I never personally let that—I didn’t know anything definitely about having new books.  So, it did—And then our teachers, they taught us more than was just in the book.  So, they broadened things.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And, with my own experience at Gresham Meggett, I remember thinking there’s—Before I knew all those other things.  Mr. Evans, I remember—I still have that book.  And that’s been over 50 years now.  He brought me a U.S., no, a world history book.  It was a really good book.  He said, “Ms. Hamilton look at—”  But again, I was only there three years.  So, I wasn’t there—I’m trying to think.  I was there—They had a book selection.  You see another reason I would serve on textbook collections is, see, then you get all the books—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . from the publishers.  Because they have to give you a set, in order to—So, I would use, pull information for my students.  So, for me that wasn’t a big issue.  Maybe it should have been.  But I was always one to use additional materials to supplement the textbook.  Plus, at that time, I had some of my college books which were, had information that—So, I could supplement from my college textbooks.  And, then, I knew where the library was.  I would go to the library and I would do research.  And that’s why I started—I really didn’t start out to get a Master’s.  I just decided, you know, I want to know more about this topic.  So, I went to the Citadel to learn more about a particular topic.  And then, after a while, I looked at my record and it said I only needed three more classes for a Master’s.  I said, “Oh, I guess I’ll get a Master’s.”  But I didn’t set out to get one.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     I just wanted to fill in where I was weak.

MBR:  Good.  Well, was there a difference when you went to Fort Johnson?  I mean were there new books there?  Where there—

DH:     Oh, yeah.  There were new books there.  I was on text—any book if I wanted.  For example, when I started teaching the AP, we used to use, I remember well, Palmer Colton.  That was the textbook.  But then I came across—And then I started working with a professor at Clemson.  After teaching AP for eight years, the state of South Carolina decided that every AP teacher had to take a two-week course.  Even though you had taught eight years.

MBR:  Yeah.

DH:     I remember Milton Almon [phonetic] at Middleton.  She was like the dean of teaching AP.  She could teach—She could teach a room full of PhD’s.  And she only had a Master’s, I mean a BA.  I don’t know why she just didn’t want to do it.  It wasn’t that she couldn’t do it.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     She just didn’t bother to get anything above her BA.  But she knew much more than that.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And if she got into a room—And I’ve seen her with a room full of PhD’s.  She’s the teacher and they’re the students.  That’s just her personality.

MBR:  Right.

DH:     You know, she was just a lovely woman.  But, anyway, so, we took—So, with my associate with Dr. Pars [phonetic 01:14:16], I took a course from him.  I had to take my two-week course.  And then, the next year, the year after, I got a call from Clemson.  And I thought, “Okay, why is someone calling me from Clemson?”  It was Dr. Pars and he said he wanted me to be his—Each section you have the professor and then you have a high school teacher who teaches the same subject.  And that’s supposed to be the master teacher.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Because you kind of relate with the teachers maybe, better than the professor to them.  Whatever.  The practical side.  And he wanted me to be his master teacher.  So, I thought, “Oh, you are mistaken.  You mean Mildred Almon.  You don’t mean me.”  But he meant me.  And, so, by being, working with him, he always selected excellent textbooks.  And when I came back to school, I just tell my principal I would like—

MBR:  You knew.

DH:     And I was department chair.  I had to order it.  And sometimes—I remember once at Clemson—At, well through—Yeah, Clemson, I’m in the bookstore.  They don’t think of getting good books out of Clemson.  But I have gotten some really good history books.  And they had—They were going to use a new edition of a book.  So, they had all these, just one year old books.  And they had them for 40 cents?  No, not 40 cents.  I know, some ridiculous—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Maybe a dollar, is what—Maybe a dollar.  So, I just bought all they had, about 40 of them.  And then, see, I built, you know, my collection.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     So, my AP students, the day they walk in, they don’t get one textbook.  They get issued at least five or six.  And then as we go, depending on the topic we pull from.  And that way they get to see different point of view, which is very important in AP European history.  And they begin to help their thinking and evaluate their thoughts and what have you.  And dealing with different resources.  So, I’ve always had—The way I’ve—Even with Mr. Evans, just in that early stage—I was still learning then.  But, you know, I had resources.  So . . .

MBR:  I think that’s great.

DH:     Yeah.

MBR:  No.

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  I just thought I’d ask books, because—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  it would come up.

DH:     Right.

MBR:  I guess—

DH:     It depends on the teacher, too, and how much—

MBR:  It does.

DH:     . . . you love to—

MBR:  And how much you—

DH:     And as a—

MBR:  . . . put your, get your papers—books.

DH:     Right.  And when I went to the School of the Arts and—I wasn’t supposed to be teaching AP.  I was only supposed to be teaching that global studies for one year.  Well, the next year—No, that first year—After the first semester, we came home for Christmas break.  And Ms. Elias [phonetic 01:16:55] called me during Christmas break and said, “Ms. Hamilton, we need you to teach AP for the rest of the year.”  I said, “You already have a—”  But she—Her husband, was being relocated.  And, so, she was leaving.  But then I had to give up one of my classes in order to pick up the AP.  And I really didn’t like having to give up the one class.  That one class was a class that had a great number of African American students in it.  And then I picked up a class that didn’t have any.  But that’s all right, too.

MBR:  That’s just—

DH:     They were a good—

MBR:  That’s just the way—well they were students.

DH:     Yeah, yes.

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     And, so, I had to pick up that class.  And then I end up teaching the AP.  And they were using a regular high school textbook.  No, no, no.  You don’t teach AP using a high school textbook.  You use the AP—You use a college level book.  You want them to become accustomed to the language of the text.  You want them to become accustomed to the questions.  How they are phrased.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And how they are organized.  You can’t do that with a high school textbook.  So, I took, told Mrs. Myers I’d like to order this particular book.  So, she ordered it.

MBR:  She did?

DH:     So, I haven’t had any problem getting—I just ask—

MBR:  I’m going to ask, I think, one—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  . . . a couple more questions.

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  And that’s it.

DH:     I’m sorry.

MBR:  No, no, you’re doing great.  The children at Meggett.

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  Did they speak in a dialect during classes at all?  I mean, how would you do that?

DH:     That would—That’s hard to ask me.  Because, see, that’s the ground I came out of.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     When I was at home—My parents were not college educated or high school educated.  My dad was a minister but he was—He had more classes than my mom did, but he was self-taught, you know.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     He taught himself and what have you.  And I remember in, when I was going to college, I would be at home.  And, of course, I’m going to hear the broken English and what have you.  And then, when I got to college, I had to shift.  So, you just automatically shift, depending on where you are.  So, the dialect didn’t bother me.  It didn’t even come up at Gresham Meggett.  And we had some—I remember I had an eighth-grade class.  Those students were super.  They were like a sponge.  That’s the only time I covered every single chapter in a textbook.  We took the U.S. history—and I don’t like skipping, you know.  Even though I may not like a topic.  I just turned it into a project—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . to make it interesting for me, as well as for the students, and what have you.  Because, but I think they need all the information.  But I started at chapter one and we went straight through the whole textbook.  There was a set of twin girls in that class, the Davis girls.  If one made a 93 on a test, the other would make a 91.  The next test, the one who might have made the 91 will make the 94.  And that’s how I lived.  I couldn’t wait for them to get to my world history class.  Because I just knew—That was my favorite subject.  I just knew—And that’s when they switched and we ended up at Fort Johnson.  And, then, those girls weren’t a part of—Most of them were sent to the old James Island. 

MBR:  Oh.

DH:     But that class was a superb.  All African American boys and girls.  But they were like, they just everything—They were super.  They were super.  But as far as dialect, that didn’t bother me.  Because maybe that’s—See, that’s my background.  I’m used to that.

MBR:  So, in the classroom, it would just be—

DH:     Yes.  I mean, I heard what they were saying.  And we could communicate.

MBR:  And keep moving.

DH:     Yeah. 

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     That was not an issue for me.  That was—Now, when I retired the third or the fourth time, third time, I ended up working at Baptist Hill.  Now that was experience for me.  Because I encountered students who were reading on a third-grade level and they were in tenth grade.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     I had three classes and two of them were in that situation.  The third class was an advanced class, 15.  They were like this.  They were that sponge.  Whatever you gave them, they just absorbed it, absorbed it and asked for more.  That was a tremendous—But those first two classes, I—It was an adjustment.  Because I had never been accustomed to teaching kids who couldn’t read.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     I, I—

MBR:  I like hearing about the sponge.

DH:     Yes, yes.

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     They just absorbed—No, no, that was not an issue at James Island.  I mean at Fort—Gresham Meggett.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     At Gresham Meggett.  And they—We didn’t have discipline problems like—Well, I didn’t have discipline problems at Fort Johnson either.  But one day I came, one morning—I didn’t have to necessary be in school at 8 a.m. or whatever that first bell.  Because I didn’t have a homeroom.  Department chairs didn’t have homerooms.  So, I’d kind of sometimes come up.  I pulled into the schoolyard one morning and I saw a firetruck outside the building.  But, you know, that was not uncommon.  Because sometimes, you know, they’d come just to be around.

MBR:  Do drills.

DH:     I parked my car.  I walk into the building.  I thought I smelled something.  And I walked up, you know, signed in.  Walked on down the hall.  Kind of in front of my classroom there was one of the assistant principals and a teacher from my department.  My room had burned.  During the weekend, a student or some students took, like, a wheel of kind and put some kind of flammable material on it.  And they threw it through the window.  I had just collected about 40 posters, schoolwide posters, because the—It was African American History/Black History Month.  And the kids all over the school, black and white, they had, you know, turned in posters—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . as part of the activity.  I had not yet evaluated those posters.  They were just there, about 40 or more, what have you.  Guess what?  Not one poster was damaged.  It was still sitting there.  The light fixture like this was hanging from the ceiling—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . the heat was so intense.  I had a bookcase by the window and that’s where I had all of my extra AP—I tried to collect them over the years.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     AP books.  And what else?  Oh, my clock.  You couldn’t read—You couldn’t tell time, but the clock was still working.  You could hear it ticking and what not.  And they kept saying, “Ms. Hamilton, you know this wasn’t meant for you, right?”  I said, “Hm-hmmm [affirmative], sure.”  And I had two, a boy and girl, I knew were a little bit disturbed by me earlier, I would not have put it past those two.  But it turned out not to be them.  What happened is that some boys, Caucasian boys, they were—We had an assistant principal who was equally despised by both black and white students.  He was something.  He was standing outside my—He was hugging me.  “You know it’s not meant for you, right?”  “Sure.”  But we found out the boy—His office was next to my classroom.  What they weren’t thinking—They were going by the windows.  They didn’t realize that the office was actually a classroom that had been subdivided.  And there were two assistant principals in there.  This particular principal had a window.  They thought they were hitting the principal’s office. 

So, it really wasn’t meant for me.  So, for the rest of the school year, I had to float a—And then they put me in a trailer, I think.  Then they spent all that money, thousands of dollars, to redo my classroom.  They replaced all my books.  They gave me money to buy more books.  They total redid the whole classroom.  And, then, the next year, they tore it all down and put a hallway through it.  Use of public money.  But because they had the insurance, they had to use the insurance money.  So, that’s, you know—So, I—And the students did—It really wasn’t me, it was this assistant principal that they—And they—And that—And then I came up to the school that summer to pick up something.  And I walked into the office and the secretary, who actually was in that first class with me, when we integrate when we opened Fort Johnson.  She was one of my psychology students, little devil, Lynn.  She is now the school secretary.  Lynn said, “Ms. Hamilton, you see that young man at the counter over there?”  She said, “That’s the one who burnt your classroom.”  They thought they were getting the principal, Dr. Sheley [phonetic 01:26:25]  They thought they were getting Dr. Sheley’s office. 

MBR:  Well, it was an awful thing to happen.  I’m glad the outcome—

DH:     Yeah, yes, yes.  But, I mean—And what’s good, too—

MBR:  Yes.

DH:     . . . the fire occurred during the weekend—

MBR:  Right.

DH:     . . . probably Sunday.  But what’s even better, the fire department didn’t know about it.  No one knew about it.  The fire put itself out.

MBR:  Wow.

DH:     And what happened when Randy, who taught a couple of doors down me—He was an early person.  When he came in the building he smelled whatever.  And then he came by my room, because he would have to pass my room to get to his.  He discovered the activity.

MBR:  Oh, my gosh.  What?  That’s some story.  Well, I—Is there, is there anything I didn’t ask you that I should have?  I guess that’s the thing.

DH:     Right.

MBR:  Is there something you want to—

DH:     No.

MBR:  . . . end with?

DH:     You know, with the students, I made up my mind when I realized I was going to be assigned to this new school and I’m going to have these new—I simply said to myself, “I will be in charge.”  That, really that’s what I said.  And, of course, I made assignments—I used to make my assignments weekly.  But I got, you know, the weeks came by so fast.  So, what I’d do, I’d make out a monthly calendar.  And the beginning of each month, a student gets—And then I don’t like accepting excuses.  “Oh, I was absent when you made that assignment.”  “You have your calendar.  This could help you, so that if you are absent, you won’t have to fall behind your student, you know, classmates.  You know exactly what we’re going to cover.  You know what, when the tests are going to be.  If you have a major project, you know when it’s going to be.”

MBR:  No.  It sounds like you had a great teaching career.

DH:     Yes, I did.  And I had one last story.  I had Douglas.  I thought I was going to have to kill Douglas, though.  I didn’t think we were going to last.  Douglas came to my class in ninth grade and I thought—But anyway, we survived.  His father was a police office, too.  Douglas ended up in my class again the next year, another subject.  And Douglas is never absent.  He’s present every day.  But this one day, Douglas was absent.  And he—It was the day a major project was due.  You know, I made adjustments for something, might have been not a major project.  And Mr. Hyatt had made it a school rule that—Because my rule was “If you’re absent, then it’s your job to still get that project to me.”  You could mail it.  Just make sure it’s postmarked the day it’s due. 

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Have a parent to bring it, a grandparent, a reliable neighbor, a reliable friend.  Okay.  And, you know what, students got their work in on time.  They didn’t give me excuses.  Mr. Hyatt made a school-wide policy that if a student is absent the teacher must accept their work the next day.  So, I said, “Okay.”  I’m going along with it.  Well, Douglas was absent, which was unusual for him.  School day has ended.  I’m still in the building at my desk.  Douglas walks in with his project.  I said, “Douglas, you realize you could have brought this the next day.  Mr. Hyatt says you have a right.”  Douglas looked me in the eye and said, “Ms. Hamilton, that’s not your rule.”  See, he knew from the year before.  He brought his—Then he ended up taking a third class because I ended up teaching an advanced law class because I had these kids who wanted to do mock trial.  And it was just too much to get them already without, you know, after school.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     I said, I told them, I said, “Okay, if you all want a class, Mr. Hyatt says you have to have 15 students.”  And they didn’t have quite 15 of them.  They said, “Okay.”  So, they went out and found other people to sign up for the class, so we could have the class.  Douglas signed, because he liked one of the girls in there.  They actually got married.  He and Mary got married, that’s right.

MBR:  Douglas had a success story.

DH:     He has a success story, yes.  But I thought—But he was going through some things with—I think he lost his mom or something.  But he was going through—But I just thought, “Douglas, I’m going to—”  And, so—I said no more stories, but there was one little boy.  He was difficult.  And, so, I called him in for a parent conference with the mother.  The mother came.  And we sat down for a conference.  And he started being rude to his mother.

MBR:  Oh.

DH:     So, I simply stopped the conference.  “You will not be disrespectful in my room.”  Then we went on and had the conference.  Well, we ended up surviving that year.  The year after he left my classroom, if he was in the cafeteria, this end of the hall, and he saw me at the other end of the hall, I would hear, “Hey, Ms. Hamilton.”  That went on for a whole year.  But I’ve never had any disrespect out of him.  But I was not going to let—The mother’s going to accept it, that’s fine.  But I will not accept it.  Not in my room.  So, I mean, that’s how we just set the rule.  When the bell rings, we start class.  When the bell rings again, we stop.  We don’t stop in between.  Because that’s when they get into trouble.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     When there’s nothing for them to do.  No, no, no.  We stay on task the whole time.  I don’t know any other way to do it.

MBR:  Well, I guess with having you in charge—

DH:     That’s it, that’s it. 

MBR:  Wow.  Again, I mean, just your career going to an historically African American college. 

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  And one that was, had rigorous—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  . . . teachers—

DH:     Yes.

MBR:  . . . and programs.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  To come to Meggett.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  Three years.  And during a time of turmoil.

DH:     That’s true.

MBR:  I mean, I know—

DH:     Yeah, they had—

MBR:  not every day.

DH:     . . . more at the old James Island—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . than at the Fort Johnson campus.  We didn’t have that many on the—We had—It was at the old James Island where there were some, you know, racial, more racial tension and what not.  We didn’t have that on the Fort Johnson campus.

MBR:  Hm.  Which is interesting.

DH:     Then—Yes.  And, then, as I said, the faculty after a while—You know, the ones who weren’t speaking, they start speaking.  We end up going to each other’s homes or—I would go to their homes.  They invite us.  We have, you know, social events and, you know, they start—Yeah.  And after a while it just—And then there were some who treated us with respect from day one.  There weren’t that many who were—You know, some, I guess, they just kept inside.  Just one or two really showed it, but they never said anything vulgar to our faces.

MBR:  Good, good.  Again, thank you very, very much.  You’ve been—

DH:     Well—

MBR:  . . . clutching this and—

DH:     Oh, yeah.

MBR:  . . . I don’t know what this is.  Is—

DH:     No, this is a picture out of the yearbook.  And this is at Gresham Meggett.  And that’s me, believe it or not.  Many pounds thinner.  That’s one of my world history classes.

MBR:  Oh, my goodness.  Can we make a copy?

DH:     Yeah, you can have it.  I have one at home, yes.

MBR:  That’s fantastic.

DH:     Yes.  And that’s at Gresham Meggett.  And I can see all the things that I had on the wall.  I believed in having—Usually, I have my students’ work posted around the wall.  That’s what I’d decorate my room with.  The students would have projects every quarter.

MBR:  I went to Catholic school, so—

DH:     Oh.

MBR:  . . . uniforms.  Look how well-dressed these kids are.  I mean, I think they look—

DH:     Oh, yes, yes.  Oh, yes, yes, yes.

MBR:  When you wear a uniform for 12 years, you—

DH:     Oh, that’s right.

MBR:  You notice, you actually notice—

DH:     Notice something, yes.

MBR:  Yes, yes.

DH:     Oh, boy.  And, of course, you know, we didn’t, the teachers, we didn’t wear any pants at Gresham Meggett.  You wore–

MBR:  Was there a—

DH:     . . . a suit.  That was just professional attire.  At Gresham—When we moved to Fort Johnson, it was the same thing, too.  And I remember, within the first five years, we had a young art teacher that come on board.  And she decided to wear a pair of pants.  “How dare you.”  And I remember Mrs. Jansen, the lady with the Master’s, I told you—

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     . . . would walk past my door—And she would go—But, anyway, the art teacher, she really challenged the system.  Wasn’t much Mr. Hyatt could really do.  And then they said, “Okay.  You can only wear, like, a pants suit.”

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     And that’s when others—And the same lady, Ms. Jansen, she evolved over the years.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     She started wearing her pants, too, and what not.  But it was the art teacher with it—And Jack Leron [phonetic 01:35:17] was principal for five years.  So, it happened within the first five years.  So, it was about the maybe third or fourth year when this art teacher came in and she had on, wore her pants, and what not.  But, yes, everyone—But, you know, I wore high-heeled shoes with stockings every day.  And no problem.  I still do.

MBR:  I was going to say.

DH:     When I get—I have a business.  I still do the business attire, yes.

MBR:  No, no.

DH:     I don’t do the high-heeled shoes every day now.

MBR:  Yes, that’s a little rougher, as I have loafers on. No, no.  Well, I can’t thank you enough.

DH:     Oh, I was hoping—I was telling Mrs. James, I said, “I don’t have enough.”  You know, she was there longer and she knows—

MBR:  Oh no, no, no.  We thank you very much.

DH:     Okay.

MBR:  You were there at pivotal times periods.

DH:     That’s true, yeah.  With the changeover.  Definitely with the changeover, yeah.

MBR:  And really giving us a sense of what was there.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  I’m going to ask you, just, really quick.  You’re father’s full name?

DH:     Oh, Benjamin Ezekiel Hamilton.

MBR:  Okay.  And where was he born?

DH:     He was born, also, in West Ashley.  My mom was born in Mount Pleasant.

MBR:  And her first name?

DH:     Her name was Queen Elizabeth.  They called her Queen Elizabeth.  Sometimes you may see Liz, Elizabeth Hamilton.  But her name was Queen Elizabeth—

MBR:  And her maiden name?

DH:     . . . Hamilton.  Her maiden name was Smalls.

MBR:  Smalls.

DH:     She was one of maybe 15 kids or something.  Her dad was married twice.  Had five children by the first wife.  She was one of—Mom might have been the youngest of the five.  And then he married a second woman and I think he had 12 by her, or 10?  I don’t know.

MBR:  Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

DH:     Some large—But her, all of them are deceased.  All the siblings are gone, yeah.  And they have children, but I really don’t know them, the Mount Pleasant side.  I don’t know them.

MBR:  That’s neat.

DH:     Hm-hmmm [affirmative].

MBR:  Now, I’m trying to think.  I think that is about it.

DH:     That’s about it, okay.